Monday, June 18, 2007

Why It's Okay to Hate Vegans

I"m 50 plus some years old, and in I came of age in the 60's and70's, which means I've seen a lot of crazy food fads come and go. Does anyone remember the word "Macrobiotic"? This diet, popular back then among the insane, promised to balance your yin and yang if only you did things like avoid eating food with any flavor. Children of macrobiotic parents would often scarf down hamburgers and ice cream as soon as they were away from home, their bodies desperate for nourishment and the forbidden. And of course, like all diets that promise to balance you out, the practitioners were all drug addicts or the most neurotic screwballs you could ever hope to meet. There was a well-known macrobiotic East Village restaurant, The Cauldron, and the staff were all outpatients. I wll say, they did make the best soba noodles I ever ate, if that counts for anything. You don't hear much about macrobiotic these days, but many macrobiotic ideas are still around. Another popular nut diet involved a long chart of what foods shouldn't be mixed together. I don't know what this was called, but many painfully thin women in the 70s would tack this long list on their refrigerators. Again, another way to remove pleasure from the culinary experience.
Of course, everyone knows a vegetarian or too, many of whom eat fish or chicken. I have no quarrel if you wish to avoid meat, but vegetarians aren't vegetarians because of animal empathy, most do it to feel superior to us lowly meat eaters. Walk into a steakhouse, and the overwhelming mood is of joy, comradery, and happiness. Walk into a vegetarian place, and it's a funeral parlor, the eaters solemnly bent over their plate of bean sprouts, tofu, and whatever else has no taste (if this isn't true, why do vegetarians try to create dishes that mimic meat?). "I don't enjoy this," they probably mumble, "but I it makes me superior to everybody else." I recall eating at Angelica's in the East Village years ago, a high temple of these beliefs, and asking the waitress for some lemon. "We don't do lemon here," she replied haughtily. I apologized for daring to ask for something that might add some taste to my food..
Vegetarianism is also a cheap way to be noticed. You're throwing a party, and you think, "Oh, I'll make a chicken salad for everyone," then you realize, "Oh wait, X is a vegetarian." Vegans are even more annoying, some going so far to not eat honey. "Bee slavery" they call bee farms. Go fuck yourself. If there's any field that doesn't hurt the animals being cultivated, it's harvesting honey. It's in the interest of the harvester to hope his bees flourish. Taking honey doesn't hurt the bees, doesn't kill them, so what is the problem? Vegan women often have problems dating, because let's face it, a guy who says, "Oh, does that have gluten? I'm allergic" is probably not a guy you want to date.
The most extreme food cult is of course the raw foodists. A friend of mine converted to this religion years ago, and a more hapless sorry bunch of morons it'd be harder to find. First, the idea of raw food is ridiculous. Many foods require heat to make them edible, and even signal desireability through cooking. Broccoli is a pale green, but when cooked, turns a beautiful vivacious green, and the chemical that's good for you in tomatoes is only released through cooking. Also, there's no culture that doesn't cook. I can't think of any society based on raw food at all. Even the most primitive tribes have fire, and a way to cook. Also, like all food cults, they make idiotic claims for themselves. It cures cancer, it cures athlete's foot, you won't age, etc. etc. If somebody wants to eat raw food, go ahead, but don't make pumped up bullshit unproveable claims, or invent theories. I love pork, but I don't claim any mystical properties for it, I just like it.
For years, vegetarians used to justify their diet with the animal kingdom. "Chimps don't eat meat," they'd say, but then it turned out not only do chimps eat meat, they wage war on each other and cannibalize their neighbors. Okay, not such a good example. Then they used dolphins, but it turns out dolphins eat each other too. Here's a word to the wise: animals are pretty diverse, you can find a species to shore up any argument. Monogamous animals, sexually perverse animals, celibate, whatever. It doesn't prove anything about humans. In the 60's there was a famous study of rats & overcrowding. Apparently, they became neutotic, masturbated, etc. This was supposed to show something about humans in cities, but even as a kid, I said, "Well, now scientists know a lot about how rats behave if rats lived in crowded apartments, but they don't. And notice, rat brain, size of a pea. Human brain, a bit bigger.'
Another religious aspect to being a raw foodie is the cleanse, an idea that's a hallmark of most food nuts. Either through fasting or some elaborately unpleasant diet, you're supposed to get the toxins out of your body. Obviously, none of these people took elementary biology. People who do these claim years of crap gets flushed out of their systems. But the stomach digests food by breaking it down with hydrochloric acid. In mad scientist movies, the vat of acid with the huge skull and crossbones, is either sulfuric or hydrochloric, and this acid is what attacks your food. Unless you've been eating metal or glass, nothing stays in your body for years. The intestines use bacteria to further break down food, take out what the body needs, and what's left is pushed out as waste. Getting colonics, anothr food nut belief, is actually harmful, because they flush out the necessary flora the intestines need to do their job. If you want things to flush normally, drink lots of water.
But raw foodists are always cleansing, and falling off the wagon, because I think the body rebels against so boring a diet. And then it really is like Christian Science: if you die, it's not because disease doesn't give a fuck how you pray, and Christian Science is dead wrong, it's because you didn't believe enough. So my friend has been cleansing for years, constantly backtracking, and constantly starting again. She thinks it'll cure her asthma. That fact that she's been eating raw food for years, and it hasn't changed her breathing isn't a fault in the diet, it's because she's not rigorous enough in following the true path.
Americans seem to enjoy any cult that removes pleasure from simple human activities. Eating, sex, walking, whatever, there's some doctor or theory to drain the pleasure out of it. I recall a study saying you shouldn't drink cold liquid, it shocks the system. Maybe if you're a neurasthenic, but I love cold liquid. I store a glass in my freezer, permanently filled with ice cubes. Cold water is a genuine pleasure to me. Now I'm supposed to give this up too? Anything that causes pleasure for it's own sake seems to make Americans nervous. Perhaps that's why so many glom on to these rigorous diets, founded not on good culinary principles, but vague wackjob theories.
Quite frankly, even if you could prove that eating uncooked food makes you immortal, I'm not giving up the pleasures of a well grilled steak, a juicy hamburger, a porkchop, or a nice broiled piece of fish. If you can, more power to you, and have a nice life.


sarah said...

hello gorilla bob, i came here via alicublog and i thought that you might enjoy this piece from mcsweeney's about vegans: it's pretty excellent. i am a secret vegetarian, and i hate vegans too. most of the time.

M. Bouffant said...

Uhhrrrrk! I ate "macrobiotic" food one night in Paris in 1969, and was seriously ill all the next day. The food itself had all the unappetizing, and none of the appetizing, aspects of Japanese cuisine.
Thanks for the memory.

Nancy said...

Metafilter had a tremendous discussion thread on the colon-cleanse racket a few months back. I laughed until I nearly cleansed myself inadvertently, but I warn you: Many of the links in the original post are truly disgusting. But if you walk it like you talk it, maybe not so bad.

Gorilla Bob said...

RE: colon cleansing. As Bugs Bunny would say. "Too gruesome!"

Rotten Tomato Girl said...

I lost a good friend to Veganism. She was angry I was feeding my 9 month old child eggs, and was horrified that I had her eating solid foods, as she believed that an infants sole source of nutrition for the entire first year of life should be breast milk. She has no children. I knew her for 10 years, and of course she's also "master cleansing" to lose weight. In my opinion, food is just another thing for people to become pretentious about.

Skankin Vegan said...

not all of us are trying to be ethically supperior to society.we just see how much the meat industry has changed in america since the 1950's and we dont think this is right.thats it.we are protesting something we dissagree, with isn't that what america is supposed to be about?life liberty and the persute of happiness. the animals natural life functions were compromised for the benifit of a few buisness men.and if u look at the fact in factory farms i think most people would agree with me.its fine if u want to eat ur hamburger or steak in my opinion(some vegans dissagree with me there)and thats fine thats there opinion.i just feel like people will never stop eating meat they should just look at the discusting condistions the animals are kept in.truly repulsive.we wouldnt wish these conditions upon our worst enemys.also 9/10 of the grain grown in the U.S. is fed to animals for about using that grain for feeding starving people?what an idea!you cant deny the facts people.its not about being better than you.

Gorilla Bob said...

I agree that many animals are miserably treated on farms, which is why I try to buy small farm, organic or free range products. I think we should respect the food we eat, whatever form it takes. It's obvious free range organic chickens look way better than Purdue or Tyson's. But you still prove my point about Vegans. Your note is like a lecture to the naughty kids.

Chip said...

Well first of all shakin veg, the animal's "natural life functions" were compromised in order to feed a hungry and growing nation. These are domesticated animals selectively bred over the course of many decades in order to provide food. Thanks to the advances of science and modern agriculture we are able to feed all those poor people that you pine for.

Also, animals aren't pumped full of antibiotics and chemicals. That's just plain bullshit. chemicals cost money, and they are used sparingly (also the USFDA has very stringent guidelines on the types of chemicals allowed in food animals, and the withdrawal period before they are allowed to be sold for slaughter). I guess your research skills are commensurate with your ability to form a grammatically proper sentence.

"Free range" and "organic" is nothing more than clever marketing. Companies can charge exorbitant prices for a product, that in reality, isn't any more healthy or "clean" than the regular stuff.

And finally, you don't really expect anyone to believe that scatology about 9/10 of all grain produced in the US being fed to animals do you? I mean, common sense alone should fire off the bullshit meter on that one. Actually, it's more like half the total tonnage of grain production in the US; However, even that doesn't tell the whole story. A lot of the grains used in feed production are remnants or reconstituted grain products. In other words, not suitable for human consumption. If you want to bitch about something keeping grain out of the mouths of poor and starving people go carp to the idiots pushing ethanol as an alternative fuel source. It's very inefficient, and has caused price spikes in everything from the cost of catfish feed in Mississippi to tortillas in Mexico.

-enjoy your tofu

Rotten Tomato Girl said...

Well, this is an oldie but a goodie!

I read all the posts after my last, and I'm still laughing! Let's all just be thankful we HAVE food to be so picky and self-righteous about!

No one should really care about what another person eats so much that you attack another person's sense of self worth. Humans are OMIVORES. There's no getting around that -- and if you want to jam pills down your throat to make up for the vitamin deficiencies and eat vegetables because it makes YOU feel better about yourself, go right ahead. But don't get in someone's face about it because it's what YOU believe. Same goes for religion, sexual preference, and politics.

And I'm sure Shankin' can't spell because her brain lacks the proper nutrients to form a grammatically correct sentence...

(Sorry I couldn't resist!)

Shinobu said...

For every meat a vegan doesn't eat I will eat twice the meat for them. I am adopting a vegan by eating what they don't eat. That way the meat doesn't feel left out whenever some mis-informed vegan decides to ignore an important food group. It's like food discrimination. It should be a crime to discriminate food! And how dare they harp at us for eating meat. They themselves are eating the food that my meat is eating. Seriously vegans should be made a laughing stock. Veggies is what food eats!

Rex said...

This means that one day, we'll be able to eat vegans, if all they eat are veggies and veggie-based products. It would be like eating chicken.

pinkwerewolf said...

Amen. Nothing gets me more annoyed than a vegan preaching to me about their no-guilt life.

Funny, I don't feel so guilty about eating a delicious brisket.....

Shock Le Monde Shock La Mode said...

I totally agree with gorilla bob...however the person who states that organic meat is not different or safer hasn't done ANY research. Organic meat not only has more nutrients in it, it has a better taste. Chemicals DO affect us to some degree so I would rather be safe than sorry.

Shock Le Monde Shock La Mode said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Vegan God said...

Omnivores like the ones here are the reason I feel the way I do about humans. I won’t try to convince you to change your ways; what you do with your life is your business. Food is just food, right? When you are no longer at the top of the food chain, you will see what I mean. Human flesh will be the delicacy, and it couldn’t have happened to a nicer bunch. I would think most vegans don’t become vegan to claim superiority over omnivores; I think most do it because they do not like being a part of the superiority mentality of humans. They’re just animals to you, and you speak about superiority.

You people can despise vegans, but at least they’re trying to reduce the aggression and imposingness of their own lives. If you don’t care that your pleasure of eating meat comes at the expense of another, then you show your character. Enjoy your society while you still can. I am letting you continue your imposing ways because I don’t want to be the aggressor you all are, but I have decided that I don’t mind being an aggressor with human aggressors. Your god may try to help you, but know one can save you from your fate. I will enjoy seeing the end of your human society. The time to move the animals out of their cages is near; human omnivores will take their place.

Satevifer says your jealousy of vegans is humorous to him/her. I love some omnivores; however, most human omnivores are in for a TASSSTE of their own medicine.

Vegan God said...

My use of the word delicacy is out of place in this case. Eating human flesh will not be a delicacy because it will be common practice. I just wanted to clarify.

Vegan God said...

Don’t do unto others what you don’t want done to you. Do unto other as you would have them do unto you. Get the picture?

John said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John said...

Gee, your long-winded tome (complete with how you're going to eat us), and subsequent correction (just in case I, while understandably enrapt reading said tome, misunderstood something) really convinced me vegans are normal people.

Brian said...

Sadly there are many self-righteous "cool" vegans out there who can potentially do more harm than good for animals because there are many many MANY more omnivores in the world who will look for any little abnormality or inconsistency in vegan's lives that they know to justify their own lifestyle. That's what people do; how else would an omnivore who is educated about factory farming sleep at night?

transfield said...

I was raw for on and off for three years. The longest stretch was 18 months. I found it was good for 10 to 14 months but then became a big drag. It is true that raw food people do feel some what superior and better than cooked food people. I also thought, as people told me, that raw people are nice and easy to get along with. They are full of the right Karma. I found that however you were before raw, you will be the same while raw. So if you are a cooked food jerk, you will also be a raw food jerk. I still eat healthy, mostly unprocessed foods, but i now eat meat once or twice a week, raw milk and eggs every now and then. So I'm not wondering around figuring out what raw thing I can stick in my mouth to stave off hunger pains.

transfield said...

I was raw for on and off for three years. The longest stretch was 18 months. I found it was good for 10 to 14 months but then became a big drag. It is true that raw food people do feel some what superior and better than cooked food people. I also thought, as people told me, that raw people are nice and easy to get along with. They are full of the right Karma. I found that however you were before raw, you will be the same while raw. So if you are a cooked food jerk, you will also be a raw food jerk. I still eat healthy, mostly unprocessed foods, but i now eat meat once or twice a week, raw milk and eggs every now and then. So I'm not wondering around figuring out what raw thing I can stick in my mouth to stave off hunger pains.

transfield said...

I was raw for on and off for three years. The longest stretch was 18 months. I found it was good for 10 to 14 months but then became a big drag. It is true that raw food people do feel some what superior and better than cooked food people. I also thought, as people told me, that raw people are nice and easy to get along with. They are full of the right Karma. I found that however you were before raw, you will be the same while raw. So if you are a cooked food jerk, you will also be a raw food jerk. I still eat healthy, mostly unprocessed foods, but i now eat meat once or twice a week, raw milk and eggs every now and then. So I'm not wondering around figuring out what raw thing I can stick in my mouth to stave off hunger pains.

transfield said...

I was raw for on and off for three years. The longest stretch was 18 months. I found it was good for 10 to 14 months but then became a big drag. It is true that raw food people do feel some what superior and better than cooked food people. I also thought, as people told me, that raw people are nice and easy to get along with. They are full of the right Karma. I found that however you were before raw, you will be the same while raw. So if you are a cooked food jerk, you will also be a raw food jerk. I still eat healthy, mostly unprocessed foods, but i now eat meat once or twice a week, raw milk and eggs every now and then. So I'm not wondering around figuring out what raw thing I can stick in my mouth to stave off hunger pains.

Jess said...

This post is awesome. i hate how vegetarians eat imitation meat. i came across this poem and t-shirt:

I eat Vegans
For breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Some say cannabilism
Makes me a sinner.

But I say vegtables are people too.
So eat your veggies,
And I'll eat you.

Just Justin said...

First off vegetarianism is not a diet fad. In todays society it may be used as such but then again some people stick their fingers down their throats to lose weight. People do stupid things these days. On the other hand there is evidence of vegetarianism that predates the birth of Christ. I know some veggies can be pretentious and demeaning to others and I don't agree with that. However, to generalize such a large group of people and decide to hate them is rather pretentious as well. There are some who treat it like a religeon and they often do not respect other peoples choices. Yet there are many that view it as a personal choice and nothing more. I often debate both sides in order to balance out the overwhelming misconceptions between the two parties. For instance, eating meat is not unhealthy but eating meat in excess can cause health problems. On the other hand removing meat from your diet can cause health problems if you don't supplement the nutrition. There are pros and cons to both sides and those can very depending on ones own personal experience and choice. Some people go veg for the enviroment and some buy only free range. Some go veg for health and some eat a balanced diet and exercise. Then you have the extremes of both that do tend to be somewhere out in left field. Look at teh adtkins diet for example. As far as silly diet fads go, I would put that somewhere in the same realm as the micrbiotic diet. In summation, problems occur when any two groups reach levels of extreme and then face off. This is evident in many aspects and especially in religeon. People put to much importance things and then they choose to get offended. Resulting in a debat such as this. What is sad is that this much energy could be put into a debate regarding food. Both parties should try going without and see if that doesn't change your tune a bit.

***Liviana**Mari*** said...

Actually honey is important for bees and we rely on bees for our very existence.

But, yes I agree on vegetarians. Killing plants also counts as killing life.

***Liviana**Mari*** said...

***Liviana**Mari*** said...

Actually honey is important for bees and we rely on bees for our very existence.

But, yes I agree on vegetarians. Killing plants also counts as killing life.

Flyswatter said...

I'm a vegan and for the life of me I can't figure out why meat eaters hate us so. I'm a very nice person. I'm not obnoxious about eating the way I do--I turned to veganism because of health problems (diabetes) and it has really made a difference--my A1c has dropped to below 7, my cholesterol is now at 110, last time I checked my blood pressure it was 108/74, and I've lost 75 pounds (still have a lot to go). Most people I know are meat eaters and they still like me even though they get tired of watching me eat salads (I LOVE salads and all vegetables except cucumbers).

There are many other reasons to stop eating meat--global poverty, cruelty to animals, global warming, pollution, but for me the health benefits are what make most people take notice. It's not a fad--you have to be very careful and eat correctly.

Eric said...

Most people are annoyed by vegans (or militant vegetarians) because they wear that shit on their sleeves constantly. Their entire existence is about how they do not eat meat. It is their identity. It is the same how a lot of homosexuals wear that shit on their sleeves, again it is their identity and they would not know who they were without it.

I eat meat and have sex with women but I do not broadcast this to anyone who will listen every chance I get. Neither make me who I am, they are just 'things' I do in the course of living.

Both sides have it wrong when it comes to the health reasons for deciding to be a vegan. It is not the food that is harmful but the amount that is ingested. Too much meat can contribute to adverse medical conditions but so can too much of anything. When I was in basic training for the US Air Force, another soldier died from too much water intake. That is right, too much WATER!

Here is a clue, no one gives a shit what you eat or who you have sex with, stop talking about it, stop building your self identity around these topics. I know many many vegetarians and every single one of them are consumed by this choice and allow it to affect every one around them. It is actually quite selfish.

Emanuel said...

I'm a vegan, I don't bring it up unless asked by friends normally; it's just food. I don't think I'm better than anyone else, I just don't enjoy eating products from animals. I don't see what there is to "hate" about that, it's food.

Kary said...

Hey I am vegan myself and I am not like those you say...I mean I think some human acts are not right and that stuff...but don't generalize. I have been in contact with annoying vegetarians and vegans too...and I'm vegan.

Johnny said...

I don't think we should hate people, even if vegans are really asking for it.

I think there are more than 100 million cows in the US alone. If organizations like PETA had their way, what would come of them? They would most likely be put down, just like how PETA puts down abandoned pets it "rescues".

Humans, animals and plants exist in symbiosis... we depend on each other. But the vegans see the human-to-animal relationship like master and slave. Its not like that.

Large mammals such as cows, sheep and pigs benefit greatly from their relationship with people; people find them delicious or useful, and therefore make it possible for these animal species to flourish in a way the could never do on their own.

In New Zealand, there are 3 million people, and 22 million sheep. Are the people really the masters in that situation?

When you watch a dog owner pick up his dog's poop in the park every morning, and pay 1000s of dollars in veterinarian bills, is he really the master??

The human gets companionship, the dog gets care. It's a deal.

The human gets wool and meat. The sheep get food, shelter, medical care, protection. It's a bargain for them.

Anyway, we have destroyed the ancestral habitats of domesticated animals, so letting them free is hardly a solution from THEIR perspective.

And what was great about the "natural" state of such animals, anyway?

Have any of you ever seen a lion attack a zebra? Is that enjoyable for the zebra?

Chelsea said...

I eat only raw plant food myself, and I really don't care what other people eat as long as they're happy. boo-ya.

I DESPISE the wrath of spreeze!!! said...

Oh, come on people!!! Can a bunch of adults honestly be this mature? I mean, you're cussing and insulting people like 2nd graders!! Bottom line: IT'S JUST FOOD!!! Obviously the guy who made this post is insecure, so he tries to make himself feel better by bashing anyone who does not support his way of life. Everyone who is joining in- GET OVER IT!! Don't stoop to his level. People have the right to eat whatever they want. Honestly, you adults should know better than to judge and insult people that you don't even KNOW, simply because of what they choose to EAT, and what they believe. Honestly, people are just getting worse and worse. I wonder what it will be like when I grow up... :(

Jesse said...

I first read this and part of me wanted to make a long post quoting and refuting all of the blatantly incorrect and insensitive claims made. I'm not going to bother, because I don't even think the author would listen. I will just say this: Becoming vegan takes a great deal of courage and strength and those who take the challenge on should be praised for doing something positive for themselves, the environment, and animals.

Platinum Tree said...

If a vegans excuse for not eating meat is to respect life and nature because it has feelings, then stop eating plants too.

Plants may have a conscious, plants may feel pain and torture when you chainsaw their guts out. No one really knows.

If you want to truly respect everything don't eat at all, and starve to death.

Oh yes thats such a fabulous philisophy my vegan friends. Get real.

One thing eats another. Humans are food for something bigger, just as our food is to us.

If you have any kind of consideration for the 'animals' you will use the product instead of letting it's death go to waste. Kill it, eat it. Don't throw it out.

I don't care what people eat, and I don't care if you are a cannibal who snacks on your best friend's legs for breakfast or the world's most popular vegan. Each to their own.

Julia said...

Hey, thanks for this! I'm so sick of vegans/vegetarians trying to "convert" me. It's like their diet is their religion, and as soon as they take it up they feel the need to spread their gospel (sometimes forcefully, as I have experienced). I'm a political leftist, and most of the people I go to rallies with are vegetarian/vegan, and they act as if what they eat has something to do with their philosophies on whatever. I'm so sick of it.

mike said...

" Christian Science: if you die, it's not because disease doesn't give a fuck how you pray, and Christian Science is dead wrong, it's because you didn't believe enough."
this is totally wrong, if someone claims they are christian and says someone died cuz they didn't believe enough, then they are not christian

Joseph said...

Wow you're a hateful person. Did a vegan molest you as a child?

To make the claim that vegans/vegetarians don't eat meat because it makes them feel superior to you is as ignorant as saying niggers are all bastard thieves and rednecks fuck their mothers isn't it? Its not ok to HATE anyone. Ever heard of "love thy enemy"? Not that vegans are your enemy, anyway, but I think we can agree you should love more than your enemy. :-)

Also it isn't vegetarians/vegans that make their vegetables taste like meat. Its you meat eaters that make your meat taste like plants! You COOK it and SEASON it with PLANTS. True carnivores love blood, guts, intestines... mmmm. But now a plain steak is just so plain isn't it?

So think again. Biologically we are primarily herbivores, like our primate relatives. If you disagree prove it: consume a whole chicken, raw, with nothing more than your hands. Oh wait, that's right, you don't have a natural way to eat meat... you have to invent the knife first... oh yeah and you'll probably get sick from eating a raw animal without washing it and cooking it. You might even die.

But the apple I ate for breakfast didn't kill me, and one a day will keep my doctor at bay. I have massive muscles and weigh 215 pounds at 6 feet tall (beans were the food of the Roman gladiators). I'm intelligent and working on a college degree. I have a great sex life, and I show the same compassion I show animals to my human friends... most of whom eat meat and never hear me lecture them. I don't think that makes me morally superior to you.

I do, however, think it makes me a little more open minded. If the evidence pointed to humans requiring a meat diet I'd eat meat. However, all evidence points to our consumption of animal products as the leading cause for heart disease due to the cholesterol content that your average cat has absolutely no problem with because they are true carnivores. Not to mention meat consumption causes the suffering of those animals factory raised as our food, and contributes more greenhouse gases than our automobiles.

But by all means, HATE me...

kamillajoanna said...

Holy shit, some of you people are insane. Why all the hate!?

I really don't understand why anyone would hate someone for making an individual choice like being vegan. It's not like people go vegan because they want to provoke carnivores. I'm vegan and I've never preached to anyone or tried to "convert" them. I truly don't see the need for this us-them mentality. This isn't a war, people. It's simply using free will - just like carnivores are doing by choosing to eat meat.

Oh, and the whole "eating vegetables is also murder" is bull. How - PLEASE someone tell me how - a vegetable or fruit would EVER feel pain, when the things don't have a nerveuos system? Doesn't make any sense now, does it?

Joseph, loved your post btw.

And Gorilla eats, I think it's sad to use up all your energy on hating someone for something like this. You must live a pretty miserable life.

kamillajoanna said...

I meant gorilla bob, my bad.

Spyro Poulos said...

Good post
I have a few major gripes with American food foibles as well.

1. A large majority of the lowest income bracket of this country is obese. Why because all they can afford to eat is crap, cooked in crap with crap on it - that in itself is ridiculous - in every other country poor people are starving to death and in ours we are killing them with heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure and who knows what else but that said let's talk about...
2...the elitist assholes you already mention. Most people around the world can't afford rice - a burger with a nice bun would be heaven to many starving folks in much poorer countries but we turn our noses up at meat due to cruelty to animals? One big potato could feed a family of three but we poo poo it if it's not organic? Are we serious? And also - why do we always here about chickens and cows but not say, shrimp or escargot or clams - are these not animals that feel pain? Hell clams we eat while they are practically still alive - why aren't there any clams in PETA ads! Here's what I'd like to do - go to the hungriest country in the world, find some distended stomach, ribs protruding, flies crawling up the nose kid like in the UNICEF ads and tell them that we throw away large quantities of government subsidized food, won't eat meat because it's mean, won't eat vegetables or grains unless they are three times the price and claim to be organic and we have diseases where people just don't eat on purpose, and the poorest people in our nation are the biggest lard asses - ask that son of a bitch how he feels about macrobiotics, organics, vegans etc.

Amy said...

I'll never understand why omnis get so butthurt over us not eating meat

Spyro Poulos said...

Dearest Amy
If you kept to yourselves and stopped being whiny preachy little shits we'd live and let live but you people have to cultify your ridiculous unproven theories as to how people should eat to the point where it's become a multi-billion dollar industry. Furthermore you contribute to the nanny state we already live in when our politicians buy into your poulist shit - go ahead and over spend on food and never get vital protein that your body has evolved to need from animals we adapted our minds to hunt and our bodies to process. Veganism killed a baby in NY
The ignorant parents bought into your bullshit and killed a child that never had a say in the matter - we are not designed to eat the way you people eat. It's not the "man" saying this, it's our own bodies. So when a marketing campaign - word of mouth or not - springs up regarding the "benefits"of your little diet cult it pisses the rest off that see through the bullshit. I hope you are happy eating over-priced, never readily available foods that you have to spend 3 times as long preparing because you have to check every ingredient. Just stop preaching about it. Your right the more of you morons that are around the less people will eat animals - demand will drop and my pork chop will be half the price - please go ahead and starve yourself - mmmmmmm can you smell the bacon? I can Amy. The worst of it you animal rights jack asses. Why doesn't asparagus have rights? How do you know what it's going through when you steam it - it IS a living thing isn't it?

Michelle said...

I love the first comment by sarah. I write a vegetarian column for's San Diego edition. Yesterday, I wrote an article about vegetarians and vegans and the moral dilemma about being either one of them. Wow, did the vegans tear me a new one! Check out my article here:

Vargas said...

While I agree with you about the extremism (and stupidity) of veganism, food allergies to certain foods do exist - it's not something that's made up. I have severe eczema and until i detoxed and ate more fresh vegetables and fruits and then eliminated certain foods from my diet (cow's dairy, soy and gluten) I continued to suffer with this unsightly disease. Over the ten years I've had eczema d the ermatologists really couldn't help me so I had to help myself and that started with my diet.

However I didn't have to become a vegetarian or vegan to get my health back.

Travys ***** said...

Recently, a cousin of mine came up with a "why vegan? boycott cruelty!"
pamphlet. When I looked through it I saw many pictures of pigs and cows living in "unexceptional cruelty!"
What these vegans don't realize that these cows and pigs are ANIMALS. So what? We get attracted to dogs and cats(i have 1 dog and cat). But they're still ANIMALS. They have no theoretical "feelings"(love,hate ECT.) Besides. These animals have been bred for food. Even animals have feelings. Do you think they'd be developed by now?

Enjoy your tofu and fake turkey dinners!!!

dude_itsemily said...

posts like these always really surprise me. i definitely believe that a lot of omnivores make-fun-of vegans and question everything that vegans to in order to make them feel better about their own actions. but you do not have to. you don't have to ridicule how a vegan thinks just so you can justify how you feel. omnivores are the majority. vegans are not trying to take over your life and control you. and if you happen to feel that a vegan individual has preached to you about veganism, don't be so ignorant about it. don't think that they speak for all vegans. don't think that they are the same as every other vegan out there.

veganism can be a political, religious, health, environmental, or compassionate choice. its done for different reasons, so don't treat all vegans the same.

also, stop hating on fake meat. you eat meat because you love the way it tastes. people don't eat meat because they love how horribly the animal was treated prior, people don't eat meat because they love to think about killing animals in slaughter houses. people eat meat because our tastes buds crave it and we naturally like the way it tastes. thats why there is fake meat. because it tastes good. and people like eating food that tastes good. dude.. DUH! don't be so close-minded about the entire situation.

let vegans eat the way they want. making fun of people is so immature, prejudice, and come on its just plain rude.

maybe some of you have a reason to hate someone who happens to vegan, but no one can ever have a legit reason to hate the entire concept of veganism.

Lisa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
C said...

What a great post!

I have nothing against vegetarians...I completely understand why someone would object to eating meat. I've been an on and off vegetarian for years. But I always tend to go back to meat because of the protein and the fact that I hate tofu. But I digres...

My problem IS with vegans.

Pretentious! Annoying! No one likes you!

Who the fuck cares about a bee????

If I could personally kill every single bee on the planet I would.

I hate vegans...they are so holier-than-thou because they don't eat bread. Wow. Get off your high horse!

Maybe if you're "allergic to gluten" or something like that, then you can go be a freak and I won't hate you.

But for all you vegans who 'choose' just to eat veggies and fruit forever...ugh....STOP preaching about it and seriously get some protein supplements because you always look malnourished.

It's like you HAVE to rebel against society and try to fit yourself into a little niche with other weirdos so you can hate on people that eat cheese and don't wear things made of HEMP.

It is mind boggling. Vegans are my mind, they are like anorexic people.: Brainwashed, always hungry, and full of attitude towards people that don't believe what they do.

Everyone out there, carnivores, vegans, douchebags, whomever, should read The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollen. It is a great book about where your food comes from, and actually makes a solid argument on the economical, physical, and social benefits of eating meat...or at least, not being Vegan.

Openminded said...

Aren't you lecturing too? How do you know the main reason is to be superior? I think it's meant to be tongue in cheek but I have to say I'm astonished at the level of VENOM in this article - such a grand display of BIGOTRY from the majority of the people commenting here. I suppose humans have to find someone different they can attack because they are running out of people. Can't attack blacks or people of other nationalities or gays hmmm who can we pick on now? How boring this blog is - another rant based on anecdotal evidence based on a small sample - think I'll go and read something based on real evidence.

Openminded said...

Hate is such a strong word - do vegans hate meat eaters too do they? It seems that there are some way too sensitive people that need to harden the fuck up if they can't take a little discussion that might challenge their choices in life. Perhaps it's guilt about destroying the planet underlying this. I just don't get that hate is the emotion required. Hate is usually used for people who do terrible things - well at least that is what I thought and if they think that people making lifestyle choices challenges them I have grave concerns for their mental wellbeing - holding onto so much hostility. And summing people up based on one label - how narrow minded. I'm so glad all meat eaters aren't the same as most people commenting here. But having fun attacking people with a label seems to be soooo much fun. Why don't you join the Klu Klux Klan - think there are enough people to justify one that focusses on killing vegans.

Openminded said...
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Datnioides said...

I was in Africa last month and there was a vegan in the walking safari camp. Can you imagine that? A vegan in the carnivore's kingdom. She got her special food 3x a day. Compared to the delicious impala, springbuck and sausages the rest of us enjoyed, the vegan food looked really unappetizing. Fake meat, tofu dogs etc. Gross. This girl was skinny and pallid with bad skin and bad teeth. She was still pale white after five days' walking in the African sun.

I just don't get the point of veganism. You're just following a stupid little rule: don't put any dead animals into your mouth. And vegan food sucks. I really wonder what the Africans who had to cook the extra special vegan meal 3x a day thought about that foolishness. And I wonder whether the vegan girl tipped the staff for the extra work she made them do every meal time. She really looked like she could have used an ostrich burger or two.

Jessica said...

Really 'C'? You would personally kill every single bee on the planet?

We need bees for food. Without them, the plants that we eat (and feed to farmed animals) could not thrive, and even here in the heart of excess, we would starve.

Why can't everyone just do their own research and make informed decisions, instead of relying on second hand information they've heard from friends and various unreliable sources? I strongly encourage everyone to make their own choices- but make sure they are informed choices.

Making statements like, "I'd kill every bee if I could" is illogical, counterproductive, and ignorant. Take care to have the research to back up your claims.

If you don't, it's no wonder that you think so many people are 'pretentious elitists'

Jessica said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CowsArePeopleToo! said...

I think this post comes from ignorance-- It's not okay to HATE anyone regardless of how their life choices disagree with your ideals unless you are personally offended by their choices. Also, not all vegans try to shove their beliefs down others' throats. It's a personal lifestyle choice, not a reason to feel superior. While some forget this, most vegans are actually very respectful about the omnivorous eating patterns of others. The reason that people tend to associate vegans with preachiness is because the majority of vegans are not upfront about being vegan unless asked. It's not seen as a matter of discussion unless they are asked. Of course the type of self-congratulatory vegans who shout about how superior they are to everyone else are annoying, but this group is a small minority.

I'm not arguing for or against veganism, I'm jus asking you all to consider where this strong hatred comes from. Is it righteous outrage or simply ignorance?

David K. said...

i am vegan. i am asked why and i often answer simply, because i love animals. i can't stomach eating animals. when in good company, i dont mind speaking my mind on the issue. occasionally i am accused of: needing to feel superior, desiring attention, and other charges, which i deny.

growing up, i didn't always showed affection towards animals. occasionally, i was even abusive towards my own pet cat and dog. but even then as a kid i knew that animals felt pain, knew fear, and other traits we normally reserve for humans. as i grew up, i learned that their trust could be hurt and regained, as well as their love.

at age 23, i decided to become vegan after i first read about the horrors of US factory farms. i felt hurt about the pain my dietary habits directly caused living creatures. i came to feel culpable and even guilty for my part as the consumer of tortured and abused farm animals. i was mad that i had gone so long, and never known, never realized. i knew that there was no denying my role in this abuse in my everyday actions.

since i decided to become vegan, i have learned much much more. i know about the abuse of animals around the world. i've learned about government polcies and private industries that support abuse against animals. i believe we can change these realities.

i've also learned about animal rights activists, of all colors. vegans are a caring and passionate group of people. you are sure to meet some crazies among us, but we all share a common idea - that animals deserve the respect that we demand of each other, and continue to fight for. i've met abused farm animals, and it is as unnerving as meeting any human who has been demoralized and physically hurt. and there is immense joy in watching their recoveries.

two years later, nothing has changed my mind. i think its important to share what i know about the issue of systematized abuse against animals. i don't engage friends unless when asked. i believe in the america where it is your right to tell another person what's on your mind, and also to tell another person to mind their own business and get lost. as long as you are not hurting someone else. i dont believe in abusing animals, especially in the shameless and abusive way it is so often done. in fact, i don't think animals should be kept captive merely for the benefit of human preference, from lobsters to bees. Humans tend to have a destructive path through nature, and give little concern for the damage of our actions. When the day comes that i need to hunt for my food, we'll talk. until then- i truly believe that peace begins on your plate.


AJ™ said...

Here's a little story.
I'm 25, male, vegan and little disappointed in the non vegan posts. I grew up in a strict Italian-American house-hold my whole life. Every sunday was pasta, soup and meat. Pork, roast beef, chicken, fish, turkey. YOU NAME IT! I HAD IT!
I loved it all!

After reading up on factory farming, the china study and all other health websites, I decided to give being a vegan a shot. I lost 82 lbs. not going to the gym, My skin now glows, I have six pack abs, my sex life increased, my hair and nails have improved, no more lower back pain, all my friends are jealous (but they don't hate me) and I feel so much better knowing that im not a statistic in America being obese. If a true ginny like myself can do it then anyone can. Its all about will power. ITS HARD BEING VEGAN. The temptations are always there, esp. living in NYC. You have all these restaurants, friends wanting to order in or eat out. They don't know that its just BIG BUSINESS. They are out to KILL YOU and MAKE MONEY at the same time.

Doctors/drug companies who get paid to give you drugs give meat industries huge amounts of money to market the disease so they can cure you. Its a crazy industrial cycle that needs to be stopped.

Meat is the most acidic food on the planet. In turn the acid in your body leeches calcium from your bones in order to neutralize the acid. This is how people get sick and have weak bones. Research the type of amino acids you get from meat (all with a center sulfur molecule). That sulfur gets into your bloodstream and when your body oxidizes it, it creates an internal brush-fire in your cells. Plant amino acids have a Nitrogen center and when oxidized, creates more pressure so your blood can move.

Ever wonder why America is failing in healthcare? Its because we eat disease.

Some of you hate vegans because your simply jealous that we have better bodies, minds, and probably have more money and better jobs and lifestyles. Make the switch and stop being so naive about your food. Did anyone do research here?

I know i did... and to the post about how free range chickens and organic meat is better for you, ITS STILL ACID IN YOU BODY. Just like a battery.

I havent been sick since going vegan. Its been since May 10th 2009. I hope people on here read this and I hope that people wont be so loud when all they do is speak bullshit.


p.s. there is no fiber in meat and that's why you're fat because there is nothing to push out the toxins in your body. Check your BMI and then come talk to me. Mines 19 =D

Good Day...


Kate Schaich said...

Dear AJ,

STFU. Okay. This is why people hate vegans. I know there are some nice vegans who don't care what other people eat, but I am sick to death of you and others like you. Your pompous preaching about how much more awesome you are because you eschew all animal products. Well bully for you. I'm glad you feel the need to justify your boring diet with making yourself feel superior to everyone else.

Also, listen, it's pretty obvious you DO feel superior. Even with the "It's not about being ethically superior" which then leads into "But hey, if you like killing animals and dancing in their blood and killing yourself and having high cholesterol and undoubtedly suffering karmic retribution, hey, that's cool" no it's farking not, okay, just leave the meat eaters alone.

Did you ever think that not every meat eater is cramming a hamburger in their face for lunch and then enjoying a 30 oz steak for dinner? It seems like you think we just eat all meat, all the time, smothered in cheese and oil. That's not true. I regularly eat fish and vegetables and rarely eat red meat, and I think that's true for a lot of people.

What is bothersome is the high horse. Nobody wants to hear about how great you are because of how you EAT. It's JUST FOOD, get over it!

Openminded said...

It seems Kate you are a bit upset by vegans - gee what kind of dull life do you have? Also, you don't seem very bright saying "it's only food," What a shallow, self-serving statement that is. It seems to me you are the one with the superiority complex - thinking you are superior to animals. Go do some research about where your food comes from and why not find something important to complain about before you make anymore comments coming from the height of ignorance.

Openminded said...

Oh and my heart truly doesn't bleed for the "poor meat eaters." I can hear the world sobbing for them now, they are the majority after all, they would want to demonise a minority to continue rationalising their destruction of life. Putting others down is a convenient way to feel good about yourself. Why don't you cry for the animals you have killed in your 'quest to do whatever you damn well like and bugger the consequences' lifestyle? No because you think you matter SO much. I do feel superior to someone so ignorant as you. At least vegans aren't corpsemunchers who don't care what the corporation of agri business is doing to our planet.

AJ™ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AJ™ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AJ™ said...

Dear Hater, I mean Kate...
If you READ MY POST it says how I TRANSFORMED from not being a vegan. I gave you both sides of the story. I explained how my life got better by making the switch. When I wasn't vegan I defended myself just like you are.

As for STFU, let the people with brains do ALL THE TALKING on here. I'm sick of people who open their mouths that don't have facts about anything.


Listen... so was I, no shame in admitting it.

I bet you a million dollars you cant become a vegan for 3 weeks without saying "WOW I FEEL AND LOOK BETTER"

AND! I went to the city when the yankees won the world series for the parade and what I found was that almost every young lady from ages 15-24/25 had HORRIBLE ACNE. and I mean BAD! - I wonder what that's caused by? MAYBE ITS THE FOOD THEY ALL EAT? I know hormones have a lot to do with it but I think on a major scale its the food industry. BUT ITS OK! Because Pro-Active Solutions is here LOLOLOL. MORE BULLSHIT PRODUCTS.

Its a viscous cycle.

Just youtube Dr. T Colin Campbell - watch his videos. Then come post here...

Live well,

jo momma said...

The biggest frustration that I have with vegans specifically (not all vegetarians) is that they won't eat the most of the food of almost every culture out there. Possibly because of some fish sauce, or honey, or milk, or yogurt. They will not open their minds to the food of other cultures. Food is the window to most cultures.

My family and a friend of one of our kids went over to another family friends for dinner. They are korean. This vegan would not eat anything except rice. Now in Korean culture, when they invite you over, you eat what they give you... and as far as I understand they try their best to make something we'll all eat. But the miso soup had anchovies in it, and the kimchi (a pickled cabbage) has fish sauce in it, and the bbq'd meat...more than 15 different dishes... not eating anything.... I was so embarassed. And our host had worked all day to make the food.

I'll never allow that person (who is in their mid 20's) to ever dine with my family again.

I think that you can learn more about being kind and less abusive by opening you mind to other cultures. Understanding that being rude and disrespectful to the people who are showing you their hospitality, for the sake of a pig or a chicken seems a tad silly. Especially if you're making claims that omnivores are cruel.

Moral principle, huh? here's one for you. Try defining kindness with the idea of having courtesy and respect. And if you ever find yourself with this moral dilemma. Choose the lesser of two evils. Eat what is given to you. A lot of hard work and love went into that meal.

And when your done...go back and pat yourself on the back for going through that excruciating, self-sacrificing act of eating food outside of the "ok" list.

Then you will have done something kind and not cruel.

LotusGong said...

After I read "if this isn't true, why do vegetarians try to create dishes that mimic meat?", I stopped reading it cause I read these ignorant claims all the time. And for you being 50 years old and so narrow minded, it's a major disgrace to the human race. I'm a former vegan and now I'm a fishvore. Now let me ask you this way: why do omnivores put taste from plants into their meat? Veg*ns don't mimic the meat. They are just using the same spices as you do. What do you use? Dried chilies and black pepper? Well what else would vegetarians and vegans use? Is there any spice made by nature just for a vegan diet?

I eat raw fish and nothing else. Raw or cooked and I use no spices at all, nor do I like it smoked as maillard reaction is carcinogenic. If meat is so tasty, why is it seasoned with vegetable spices, fried in vegetable oil, garlic or onion and eaten with a vegetable sauce? I eat fish on their own. No bread or damn mayonnaise. I love tuna canned in water. Drain it and you get the genuine taste of tuna. Some might think raw or boiled fish have a bland taste like tofu, but who on earth said that you must eat tofu raw? Chinese are probably laughing at anyone that attempts to eat tofu raw. In China every piece of tofu eaten is either fried or steamed in ginger and soy sauce, or boiled in soups. It's rarely eaten raw.

Btw I eat fish mostly for nutrition and because mammal meat looks too gruesome (see pictures of burn victims or spend a day on toxic junction and best gore and you might change your view of meat for good). Anyway, If you eat meat to make yourself happy, then I think you need to see a psychiatrist. Don't worry, depression and mood swings are treatable. But not with a steak. I was never in a vegan restaurant, but when I ate grains and nuts mixed for a complete protein, there wasn't any "funeral atmosphere". Just like meat is seasoned, so is vegan food too. And who on earth needs dairy? That's a calf's titty! Cheese only makes you fat. Been there, lost weight when I stopped eating dairy.

You know what, boil your favorite meat (I assume it's beef). Don't put in any kind of spice and eat it raw. No bread or vegetable sauce and tell us which has a more bland taste, raw boiled meat or raw tofu. It's a well established fact in Asia that tofu must be steamed or fried and seasoned just like any other food such as meat or stir fry vegetables, and we can all agree that's the same reason meat is spiced. To increase the flavour. But when people think inside the box like the author of this article, it's just embarrassing cause we all know nobody eats tofu raw in Asia.

I didn't read the rest of it but in such an ignorant blog, I sense a danger of justifying meat for religious reasons. In that case, it's freedom of religion. But religion cannot be used in science, as we all know religions are just mythologies and god is a hypothesis from bronze age. God cannot even pass as a theory. People saw something they couldn't explain. In science this is called an observation. So back then in bronze age people made a hypothesis that god created everything and gave us animals for us to consume. This couldn't work as theory because back then they didn't have the scientific method. Now today you can find out everything about Higgs boson, rapid expansion of the universe, first atoms condensing from the energy and abiogenesis creating life. To justify meat consumption everyone has to look from a nutritional point of view. Vitamin B12, D, creatine, iodine, omega 3, choline. And not zinc and iron as nuts have them in similiar amounts just as meat. But to say meat is fine because god said so, well that's just embarrassing to hear that some people need a mythological book to get morals.

LotusGong said...

This is off topic. I read in comments that a 9 month old was fed chicken eggs. Unlike that vegan friend that had no proper knowledge of nutrition, I'm actually a philanthropist and I'm learning about nutrition and child psychology (not for a degree but I need the knowledge). Anyway, I never had kids but aren't children supposed to develop some immune defense because egg proteins can cause an allergic reaction? Maybe that vegan friend had a genuine concern. When malnourished children get food, they get plumpy'nut, not a steak. It's based on peanuts and powdered milk, but not eggs. I hope many people realize that vegetarian food is rescuing children and adults from malnutrition. There's hardly any meat in food aid.

People should focus on plants instead of meat. I eat 3 or 4 ounces of fish per day and that's it. People eat too much protein and that's causing osteoporosis because body will leach calcium out of bones to neutralize it, so no matter how much milk anyone drinks, nobody will get stronger bones from it. Now as a fishvore, I'll act holier than thou too, say that fish are healthier than red meat and see how many people will become annoyed at fish-eaters just like they are at veg*ns. Do people realize without subsidizing a burger would cost over $10? One more good reason to eat less meat. It's wasting taxes.

Both sides have flaws, vegans might even go macrobiotic, which I swear I never tried, but at least veganism inspires people to learn about proper nutrition. The knowledge that omnivores have is many times embarrassing. Just look at this blog. "vegetarians mimic meat" - why do omnivores mimic the taste of barbeque? Charcoal could fall under vegetable spice. Why is there crab immitation? Why is pollock smoked and sold as smoked salmon? Why on earth do you have to use vegetable spices to make meat tasty? The only thing I use to spice up my boiled tuna or salmon is soy sauce but only because I like Asian food and Japanese eat soy sauce frequently. I'm very well aware that soy could be the most dangerous food, but that's why asians invented soy fermentation.

I'm out! And hungry. I opened tuna an hour ago. I wish you won't get a heart attack from all that hydrogenated oil that people use to fry red meat in. I'm careful not to eat too much mercury. Pink salmon with 0.06 ppm sounds safe. Now please, open your mind and stop bashing veg*ns cause you're giving a bad light on omnivores.

LotusGong said...

Btw did I mention that Japanese whalers pray for the whales they kill? What kind of respect are you showing to that steak?

And I'm gonna say one more thing jsut to spread the correct information. A lot of people think that hormone supplements in cows are causing early puberty in girls. That's not true. With todays unhealthy diet they get fatter sooner and become fertile. Women in the San tribe eat a low-fat diet and they aren't fertile until they're 18 years old.

That's all. I like to spread correct information before anyone hops on a bandwagon and starts saying that organic farming will feed the world. Well it won't according to Norman Borlaug.

elizabeth said...

i am LOVING your essay! i thought it was hilarious! esp what you said about the children of drug addicted health food freaks-i usewd to follow the dead & i can personally attest to that. i vaccilitate on and off with my veganism. sometimes i do it, other times i do not. i even eat chicken or fish every now and again ( i try to just get those who were ethically raised/non "factory fished") if i feel like my body truly needs it, i.e. like when i am sick. maybe one day i will have more discipline if be better enlightened but for now i'm happy not being quite so dogmatic and radical.

ralpis1337 said...

Please watch the above video and leave a comment telling that kid how wrong he is...I know him personally and I am losing him to the vegetarian and vegan lifestyle. I am so glad you guys know what I am going through. He needs to hear from people who disagree with it and why. Something intelligent he may listen to, if not to convert to at least be less of a butt head. Thanks to all who go and give me a hand saving my friend =)

ralpis1337 said...

Please watch the above video and leave a comment telling that kid how wrong he is...I know him personally and I am losing him to the vegetarian and vegan lifestyle. I am so glad you guys know what I am going through. He needs to hear from people who disagree with it and why. Something intelligent he may listen to, if not to convert to at least be less of a butt head. Thanks to all who go and give me a hand saving my friend =)

Shamus said...

"Walk into a vegetarian place, and it's a funeral parlor, the eaters solemnly bent over their plate of bean sprouts, tofu, and whatever else has no taste"

this might have been true 20 years ago but is hardly so now when vegetarian menus are a normal part of most restaurant experiences. While there are a lot of extreme fundamentalist eaters (omnivores not excluded) what I see you doing is building up the old 'straw-man' arguement. Creating your own fictional version of a vegetarian that is easy to knock down.

Drakox said...

Here's a Question for the Vegans here...

Are plants and Veggies alive?

Have you ever noticed that since you take a plant out of the soil where it has been planted, you kill it?

I mean... they ARE alive right?

So all the vegans take veggies and use them to feed themselves, the only difference is that they don´t ever hear a lettuce or a carrot scream in pain.

All Plants, Vegetables, Humans, Animals and Fruits have water as part of their composition, and there has been studies that prove that water "feels" (link A), so all the Veggies, Fruits and Plants feel too right? they just don't show any pain...

now... a question for the vegans.

Am I sounding rational?

Well now you know how most of us feel when you bitch about our meat eating habits.

Link A

ashley said...

Heh, I guess I defy the vegan restaurant attitude.
I'm normally pretty damn loud in those places!

However, in all seriousness, veganism has helped me feel a lot better physically and that has encouraged me to exercise more... which in turn has helped my asthma by strengthening my lungs.

Now, to the post in general:
Although I appreciate your position that food trend followers can be overzealous and exude an air of moral pretentiousness, not all vegans believe they're morally superior. 'Nuff said.

Vegan food is pretty kickass, and it often brings something totally new to the table that differs from the standard American fare of -large hunk of meat, two overcooked vegetables-.

You should try it. Macrobiotic and vegan are not the same thing. For instance, vegan food tastes good. We love carbs.

If we all thought we were so much better, we wouldn't have so many omnivorous friends.

Jesse said...

I've decided to subscribe to your blog, on the off-chance that I read "this old fucker finally dies, and takes his stupid opinions with him."

Tegan said...

I am not a vegan to put other people down at all. In fact, unless people ask me or happen to notice what I'm eating they don't know I'm a vegan at all because I don't think its my place to tell other people what to eat. I will, however, answer questions about it if they are curious enough to ask. This blog post was insulting because not every vegan is the same, just as not every meat eater is the same. Why slap a label on everyone when you don't know how each person thinks as individuals?

Your rambling on your soap box yelling about how all vegans think they're superior but are you not doing the same by belittling all of us with cheap sterotypes?
Just a thought.

Anastasia said...

What amuses me the most is that vegan nutjobs try to connect "global poverty and hunger" (and even global warming) with meat-eating in the US... what in the f$#@k does one have to do with another? I'm someone who grew up overseas in one of these countries where I hate rice and almost nothing else for about 1.5 years and I can see through crazy Western vegans--the real reason most Americans turn "vegan" is cause they can't lose weight without it... When they stop pigging out on bacon and KFC, they lose 100 pounds and start preaching how good it is to be vegan... or they become anorexic shadow of a person who can't life a grocery bag. People who know nothing about real life outside the US and try to bring veganism into it better shut up. Vegans get early wrinkles, just like sugar addicts (cause carnosine doesn't protect them from glycation anymore), vegans age as fast as everyone else. Vegans have emaciated appearance and their hormone production shrinks (together with some body parts)... Enough of that idiocy. A person needs to eat balanced amount of animal proteins. Whey protein, egg whites, fish and organic meats are good. Non-organic meats are garbage and better be thrown in the trash than eaten. Take it from someone who has perfect health, fitness and looks at 40 after surviving what would have killed most Americans really fast. Yeah, where I'm from we did eat pies with dogs on occation, and I don't mean hot dogs.
It just amuses me how many idiots are around who never read any biomedical publications and are unable to tell sh$$t from healthy and great-tasting stuff (non-organic from organic foods)

Anastasia said...

ps: I very much enjoy eating animal products, especially fish and whey protein powder, and at deer, bison and quail meat as well (oh yeah)--and happy I can do it for many years, after leaving my home country. My health problems disappeared over time and now I know they were caused by micro-nutrient and protein deficiencies. And yes, you should eat animal products AND down some vitamin pills daily, both.
Btw, some of my relatives deteriorated/died back in the 90s because they couldn't receive enough protein/animal products in their diet (well, practically none at all, due to economic conditions). F%3@k all the smug, crazy vegans who try to spread their insanity. I dk what their lifestyle is... but they better hold off being judgemental and preach "global good" for the world.

Anastasia said...

I actually observe entire "vegan syndrome"--it usually includes foolishly extreme, unrealistic liberalism and weird beliefs (delusions, basically). I am not sure if being vegan had caused this, or the other came first... One example is my vegan friend: they always try to defend "rights" of everything, of every un-imaginable group, and try to tell how they love my home country and want to visit it and stay there--while they have NO idea about life there, and how unsafe it is to be or visit there, and that they'd end up very poorly if they moved there, etc, etc.... this person went ahead and did some crazy and foolish stuff I can't even mention here... The longer they stay vegan, the more foolish and child-like in their views they become... My another vegan friend--the same, they became increasingly bizarre in their behavior after adopting veganism, to the point their parents disowned him now. Both look emaciated now and are very weak, lost all muscle mass eww and get wrinkles while in their 20s. Nothing good here.

Tegan said...

Anastasia: you dont have to agree with veganism, but dont preach about how horrible some of us are in our smugness and then rant about how your way of life is better. You will go further in life if you learn to respect everyone-and that includes thier choice of food and lifestyle.
Putting everyone in a box is ridiculous. Not all vegans are skinny, not all meat eaters are fat. Not every American eats fast food. Live on stereotypes if you want, but you wont get anywhere good.

Tree Lady. said...

Vegan food, unlike macrobiotic food, has the potential to be delicious as well as nutritious.

My (non-vegan) parents have been on a mostly vegan diet for about a month now to promote good health and weight loss, and it's achieving both. They don't feel deprived or lacking, and it's brought us closer as a family to be in line with each other about our food choices. We eat together because we're actually eating the same thing.

Veganism is not about making other people feel bad; that's a pretty self-centered way to see what's a pretty simple act of abstinence from something that a person finds morally reprehensible.

The vegan restaurants I've visited are usually small and boutique, which is contrary to a typical vegan potluck, which is less chic and formal, and would be more reminiscent of a steakhouse atmosphere.

I'm off to bake some delicious vegan brownies. (: They're cheaper without the animal products anyway.

RandomUserName said...

Personally, I couldn't care less if people are vegan, regular old vegetarians, or meat eaters. I'm an occasional meat eater who overwhelmingly eats a mostly vegan based diet. I don't do it for activist reasons, but for religious ones. In my faith we spend at least half the year fasting on a vegan diet. I even eat vegetarian when I don't have to just because I want to. Orthodox Christians the world over have been doing it for centuries. Our monastics are vegetarian year-round.

Anyway, I wanted to chime in from my perspective. I've gotten it from both groups. Trying to maintain a vegetarian diet offends people sometimes. I've had people (usually family) make unsolicited comments to me just seeing me order food. If I'm visiting someone's house, I'll eat what they have and won't make a fuss. However, I think vegans lose potential vegan converts when they get preachy. I know it turns me off. I'm all for abolishing animal cruelty, which is why I have no problem with meat and dairy products when the producers are ethical.

The most non-sensical argument I've seen yet from vegans here is the one (responding to why fake meat products) that says, you're trying to make your meat taste like vegetables. Your argument conveniently forgets that the vast majority of meat eaters in the world consume way more veg and fruits than they do meat.

Here's a thought: If you want more vegans in the world, get them from the healthy life-style choice angle. The other one just pisses people off.

Your Vegan Best Friend said...

Gorilla Bob, I'm sorry you have had such horrible experiences with vegans. They must have really done a number on you to make you so angry at them. I am vegan, almost all my friends and family are meat eaters. We all get along really well & learn a lot from each other. Open mindedness on both sides is key to making it work. If we approach each other from a point of kindness and compassion, we can all co-exist!

Chris said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
EdMcStinko said...

Hello there. I am an omnivore, but I think it is unwise to come to any conclusions about the assumed temperament of the entire vegan/vegetarian community. From my experiences I think it is more likely that the outspoken ones are in the minority, and for the most part vegans/vegetarians are decent people like pretty much everyone else.

However it is very difficult for me not to get angry at the vocal ones on occasion. I don’t like being called a murderer/sadist. I think people have some very legitimate concerns about the vegan diet. It has only been around for a few decades, and I have heard of a number of cases where people struggle a great deal with the diet. Some focus way to much on objections to the diet of omnivores rather then the benefits of their own.

Pure Kavana said...

have any one of you thought about the fact that some of us were raised PURE vegans from birth and although i do feel i would be 'stronger" eating some animal product - (even if it's not a dead one) - i simply cannot bring myself to do from habit. there is a natural rejection by the body - the smells are highly unappetising and make me retch and the very thought that we can eat "dead bodies" is appalling !
i especially made some strange connection the day my mother died and i sat by her body.
anyway just thought i would share this personal stuff to make people sensitised to the fact that veganism is not always a fad or a crazy whim. it's deep rooted and a very personal choice.

n. oneal said...

I became a vegan over two years ago. It started as a love for animals but I stuck with it because of my increasing good health and wellbeing. I dropped sixty five pounds right off the bat. I think I was probably annoying the first six months. I was so amazed at how fantastic I felt I wanted to share with everyone. Now I keep it to myself unless it comes up. My family and friends are omnivores. I too am over fifty and remember the horrible tasting health food from the seventies. Eating vegan is delicious and healthy. Here's a saying from the seventies we should resurrect.... Live and let live. It's better for your blood pressure. Peace.

Magdalene said...

eh, personally I like tofu, vegetables, and grains more than I like meat. I actually have to force myself on occasions to eat meat because I feel better after I do. But I'm a carbo. I can't understand your dissing of vegetarian food, if all you can imagine is bean sprout salad, you aren't eating the right vegetarianfood=)

Laura Grace said...

this is the most ignorant piece of shit i have ever read. heres why you SHOULD LOVE VEGANS: they are fucking planning for planet earth to exist past their pretentious lives and for their grandchildrens.

"1 acre of land produces 20000 pounds of vegetabls but only 165 pounds of meat. it takes 3 1/2 acres of land per person and 4000 gallons of water a day to support a meat based diet, but only 1/6 of an acre and 300 gallons of water a day to support a plant based diet. Central and south america are destorying their rainforests by clearcutting to provide farmland for first world countries to farm instead of creating sustainable agriculture, polluting water and land resources. animals are fed more than 80 percent of the corn and 95 percent of the oats grown on our soil. u.s. livestock alone consums enough grain and soybeans each year to feed over 5 times the u.s human population. OVER 60 MILLION PEOPLE DIE OF STARVATION EVERY YEAR. THIS MEANS THAT WE ARE FEEDING GRAIN TO ANIMALS WHILE OUR FELLOW HUMANS ARE DYING OF STARVATION IN MIND STAGGERING NUMBERS".

even if you don't care that all living, feeling animals have the same WILL TO STAY ALIVE AND RESIST DEATH JUST LIKE US, going VEGetariAN will help protect our resources and life on earth, so we can provide for the future.

Lily said...

I am INCREDIBLY offended by this. INCREDIBLY. I think you should be ASHAMED of what you have said.

First of all, vegetarians (non-meat eating diets) don't eat fish or chicken, unless they have convinced themselves that chickens/fish are plants...

anyways, back to why I am offended. You are making assumptions and judgements about a group of people. You are assuming that all vegans think eating honey is condoning "bee slavery", or that humans aren't meant to eat meat.

I am a vegan, and I eat honey, and I think it is very obvious that humans are meant to eat meat. It is hard to disprove that. The reason that I don't eat meat is simply because I cannot morally do so. I cannot eat a piece of chicken and think "I am eating an animal that has had a horrible life, and was killed in an even more horrendous way." I cannot eat an egg and think "the chicken that laid this egg lives in it's own feces, jam packed into a small cage, and went through a machine when it was a chick that cut it's beak off without any anesthesia". I just can't do it.

I often wonder why I am unable to eat meat or dairy, while other people don't mind, or turn a blind eye to what they are supporting. It appears you believe that said questioning is equivalent to my believing I am above anyone who isn't like me. This is not true at all.

I have little issue with people who eat meat. If it is their belief that eating a piece of steak is more important than sparing a cow from a miserable life, that's fine. I don't understand their thinking, but I don't need to. I can honestly say that if they can somehow morally justify it in their head, than it's fine with me.

What annoys and offends me, is when hot-heads such as yourself have the NERVE to insult vegetarians, vegans, anyone who is trying to make a difference in a cause they believe in. Regardless of whether or not you believe in the same cause.

I enjoy meat, I enjoy ice-cream. I am making a SACRIFICE for the plight of animal welfare. I would love to eat meat, it is as delicious as it is natural, and I think most vegans/vegetarians agree with me.

I just don't understand why you feel the need to write what you did, bashing vegetarians and vegans when all we are doing is standing up for a cause. I just don't get it. You should be happy that there are people who are willing to take a stand. Is it affecting you? Is our refusal to take part in eating meat affecting the way you eat meat? Are we really as "annoying" as you say? How can you rip a new one to a group of people, who are just trying to morally justify their own life.

I also can't believe that you not only say what we do is "annoying", and basically stupid, but also that we do it so that we can feel "above" everyone else. That is an awful, and COMPLETELY untruthful thing to say. I do not deprive myself of meat and dairy so I can simply say that "I am vegan". A lot of the time I don't even mention my veganism because people like you judge me, question me, and ultimately assume that I am strange, stupid, annoying. It almost sounds like you believe that you are above vegans. You are contradicting yourself, saying that vegans believe they are above people who are not like us, when the whole point of your essay is to point out why it is okay to feel above vegans.

Please, explain.

iAmANerd said...

Guys, seriously.... there is HONESTLY NO reason to be arguing about this! Wether we eat meat or not, we should all just learn to get along and accept each others personal decisions! So, please, can we all just get along?

Alex said...

I hate vegans when they shove their beliefs down your throat, and try to validate their personal choice by using 'science' and 'fact'. My favourite? "Humans aren't supposed to eat mean, if we were we would have teeth like other carnivores". Ever heard of an omnivore? Yeah, that's us. It's also our closest 'relatives', the great apes. I can respect a vegan who acknowledges that their choice is personal and not superior to the rest of us. What I can't respect is when a vegan makes up other bullshit to prove that they are 'right'.

Alex said...

Ps I love how many people get mad about being negatively stereotyped as a vegan are negatively stereotyping the author based in his age. Hats of to you, hypocrites!

Fred said...


I liked and enjoyed this post and I agree with all of it - apart from the bit about the guy who is allergic to gluten.

Now hang on a fucking minute. I'm allergic to gluten and I didn't choose this or ask for it, it's a fucking pain in the arse (in a very literal sense) and it's a medical condition, not some pretentious "lifestyle choice". I don't like having to ask about gluten content in restaurants. Why spoil a good article by being a twat?

CactusHeart said...

Whaddaya know? I typed in "vegans are douchebags" on facebook and this blog came up *lol*.

I agree with you for the most part...Right up until you started talking about cleansing and how nothing stays inside you for years. Did you know that almost 40 pounds of backed up waste, decaying, improperly digested food and other impacted colonic sludge was discovered in John Wayne's body when his autopsy was performed? That kind of thing DOESN'T develop overnight!! Have you seen those nasty colon waste specimen pictures taken after a cleanse? They're OBVIOUSLY NOT freshly laid turds. Many of them don't even RESEMBLE turds. They're already found in various stages of decay. Many of them are so severely impacted, they're literally IN the shape OF the colon walls!! It's also a fact that not everyone produces a sufficient amount of hydrochloric acid each and every time I.E. digestion trouble(it especially declines as you age).A significant amount passes through insufficiently digested/assimilated...and sometimes gets stuck in your pipes. With nowhere to go, it rots. And it can accumulate. Leading to some big problems. Yeah, I know, isn't this just a delicious topic? *lmao* It just I felt it needed to be said because I believe your statement about cleanses being useless is accurate.
But the stuff about vegetarians/vegans acting smug, irritable (sometimes hypocritical) douchebags? THAT'S locked on target *lol*!

CactusHeart said...

OMG, LotusGong, SHUT UP!!! I can almost guarantee you that the people here stopped paying attention to your self-righteous rants a thousand words ago and you yet just go ON and ON!!! And then, when you reach your word limit, you DON'T TAKE the hint and you continue to ear rape us all! I can bet you $ that 99% of everyone here stopped reading your tripe AGES ago and scrolled down right past the rest of your verbal compost heap. You accuse the author of ignorance, yet little do you realize that you're really making an example out of yourself thereby proving his point! Your rant looks like an example of classic vegan douchebaggery to the rest of us! Attitudes like YOURS perpetuates the negative stereotypes people like the author has about you...DON'T YOU REALIZE THAT? You just made an EXAMPLE OUT OF YOURSELF!

What's worse is, you appear to not even know what the hell you're talking about:"You know what, boil your favorite meat (I assume it's beef). Don't put in any kind of spice and eat it raw". it boiled or eat it raw? Which is it? That's like telling him to eat ice after it's fried. Do you really mean "EAT IT BOILED PLAIN", you asstard? You're clearly as mentally deficient as you are NUTRITIONALLY deficient *lmao* I wonder, does taste bud deprivation lead to brain damage? Or vice versa? *LOL*

You then go on to say:"No bread or vegetable sauce and tell us which has a more bland taste, raw boiled meat or raw tofu" only for you to later say, "yeah right...NO ONE in their RIGHT MIND EATS raw tofu." Jesus Christ, I can ALREADY IMAGINE your smug, self-righteous TONE! And wobbling your head with your chin up, closing your eyes and shrugging only one shoulder like you self-righteous morons usually do. Did you know that your SACRED,PRECIOUS tofu contains phytoestrogens that can wreak havoc on the hormones? It's now a suspect in the rise of breast cancer...suspected to aggravate menopausal symptoms in women...and incidentally, also the cause of sexual development problems of pubescent boys (undropped nuts). Giving babies soymilk to drink is the hormonal equivalent of giving them a birth control pill. Here's something ELSE you may not know: not even THE AVERAGE ASIAN eats as much tofu as you clearly do.

And your implying that only vegans/vegetarians have exclusive right to eat plant life and because the rest of us choose to eat meat must resign to a diet of ONLY meat is BEYOND ridiculous. You've proved your ignorance AND it's FAR surpassed the (alleged) level of ignorance of the author. Your brain must be the size of a sun dried tomato. What are you trying to prove here? No one's listening to you, all your attitude is doing is polarizing people (mostly in the OPPOSITE direction of you)...I wonder if even OTHER vegans/vegetarians get the shit irritated out of them by you...Must be lonely to be you :.(

Openminded said...

Cactus: How much tofu does the "average Asian" eat?

CactusHeart said...

Ok, Openminded, how about some backup:

It's lame to be pressured into giving out your email address in order to access it, I know...You could always do what I do and enter a dummy address *lol* Say, I don't know, ?


The point is, soy/tofu plays a MINOR SUPPORTING ROLE in Asian food, it's NOT the main staple of life that veg's here make it out to be...Westerners have blown things WAY out of proportion, it has as much to do with profit driven advertising propaganda is it does with general misinformation.

AJ, you say "I bet you a million dollars you can't become a vegan for 3 weeks without saying 'wow, I feel better!' " How about I claim the half million, as I was a vegetarian for 4...almost 5 years. I felt like utter shit. Hungry all the time, cranky, non-stop fatigue, gained weight (yes, I said GAINED), dry brittle hair, skin and nails...Developed white spots on my nails (a symptom of Zinc deficiency).

Brian said...


environment and predisposition will determine behavior tendencies

If not eating meat because you do not indirectly kill animals is moral and ethical, is preventing someone else from engaging in that behavior also moral and ethical? And the reverse.

Why is an equilibrium state of equal opportunity to survive the moral or ethical state? If anything evolution shows us that competition for resources and survival of the fittest has been the successful modus operandi of surviving species. It, by nature, should continue to be. Economics shows that incentives drive behavior, and to consider that you can place one species incentives over another species incentives is foolish if not irrelevant to any impact or outcome.

As for other things being considered immoral because of their impact on animals, this is silly. The entire argument that you can survive as a species without that costing other species has no foundation in any reality of biology or history and is unlikely to preside in the present or future as well.

As for morals that are based on survival prioritization based on species being analogous to racist or sexist, that is silly. Survival is based on competition sometimes within a species and sometimes outside of a species. If there is something immoral about competition, we may as well consider ourselves all immoral for surviving. Sounds like a species guilt trip to me. What about the human suffering of those in economies that must work 12 hours a day 6 days a week on very little money to survive? And yet we buy the goods made from their labors here and enjoy the benefits of this disparity by driving cars, living in big houses, and indulging our idle minds in essentially banter with little or no lasting impact on the universe.

If there were no meat industry, most if not all the animals discussed here would never exist. Is it then more or less moral to foster the existence of something that will eventually be killed or promote it never existing at all. 

We avoid taking needless or perceived needless action to cause suffering not for many reasons. It could be that we see our own mortality and weakness in others and wish to promote an environment of aid rather than constant competition because we fear someday we may too be in a comparable position of weakness. It could be that there is no perceived benefit to us in their perceived suffering (we have no problem with Chinese sweat shop workers living slave-like existences so we can enjoy new sneakers, but we can’t enjoy a veal parmigian because a cow was locked in a cage, it is very relative thinking).

I think a test that should be applied to morality is the chronology test. Did the act exist in the universe (to the best of our knowledge) prior to the existence of the idea of morality. If not we can call it moral or immoral, if so we can only call it natural and part of the pre-moral existence.

What do you do if the mentally challenged want a burger? Is this immoral ?

 If tigers want to eat another animal, I don’t think they consider what their tiger brethren would think about it? If you were trying to change everyone’s diet to vegetarian, this argument might make sense, but individually it is only imposing comparable “suffering” on oneself. It is the ultimate in moral high ground through suffering. 

CactusHeart said...

Wow, good argument, Brian.

I honestly think that both sides(including the author's) are guilty of intolerance of the other, which just fuels more stubbornness towards their own beliefs and hatred towards beliefs outside their own...

Whether you're vegan or omnivore, humans are parasitic creatures who must prey upon other living creatures to it blood-based or chlorophyll-based life. And all that we give back in return is waste, and additional demand for yet more resources by reproducing. I'm reminded of Agent Smith's speech to Morpheus in Matrix 2 *lol* ( ). We MIGHT be able to replace what we took, but humans in no way GIVE BACK or contribute ANYTHING to this planet other than waste and destruction. We need this planet, this planet doesn't need us. At all. That's something to be said about humans, PERIOD. Vegans or otherwise.

Vegans might argue "well, we don't harm animals so we do it less, making us LESS evil!" But you're still eating other living creatures, you're guilty too. So many vegans seem to carry this pious attitude that we're evil monsters because we prey on blood-based creatures and they don't...but they still prey on living creatures, just because they don't have the capacity to scream it's ok? Just the other week, I was about to bake a sweet potato...I left it on the counter for a few days, by the time I came back for it, it had already sprouted roots and a couple of blossoms! Just then I was reminded, this plant product that everyone assumes is dead is STILL ALIVE! And it's reaching for sustenance by sprouting roots, it's trying to survive! And now I'm about to strip it of it's roots and bake it... WHILE IT'S STILL ALIVE... If I can feel a pang of my conscious from baking a GD potato, I don't see how the so-called sentient and conscious vegan can't...

Jessica said...

actually i diagree with the whole thing about humans being omnivores. how many animals can you eat besides fish raw? How many other animals COOK their food? even if you did eat it raw, is your stomach really that good at digesting raw meat? food for thought. pun pun.

Jessica said...

I actually disagree with the common notion that we are omnivores. Yes we do eat meat, but let me ask a few questions. Do any other animals have to cook their meat in order to digest it more easily? Even if we do eat raw meat like fish (which can be quite unsafe), how easily can our stomach digest something bigger like raw cow or pig? Although B12 is necessary for life it can be found within milk or eggs and recently microscopic types of algae! And also B12 deficiency is very rare and seems to only happen in children. I have yet to find out about the nutriotional value of raw food. BTW everyone just needs to calm down. I would love to see you all actually yell at each other face to face :D

Mark said...

"I have no quarrel if you wish to avoid meat, but vegetarians aren't vegetarians because of animal empathy, most do it to feel superior to us lowly meat eaters."

Straw man.

Rachel said...

My name is Rachel and I am writing an article about veganism for a journalism class. If anyone would be willing to talk to me about your views on the subjects, shoot me an email at THanks!

Ana said...

"Yes we do eat meat, but let me ask a few questions. Do any other animals have to cook their meat in order to digest it more easily?"

Tell me one other animal that is capable of lighting a fire.

Miss Wings** said...

jo momma,

did you know that the vegan was going to be at that meal ahead of time? Because if you did, then it's just as disrespectful of you not to tell the family and request that they make something vegan as you believe it was for him/her not to eat any of the food containing animal products... btw, i have a professor who's an ex-vegan (because she says she feels she doesn't know enough about it to continue doing it) after 6 years... She never told anyone unless she was asked, and one of the things she says she feels instead isn't that she's anti-meat - she's pro-vegetable. LMAO

GayFish said...


porlino87 said...

Yes, some vegans are annoying. They turn vegan to be cool, or loose unhealthy weight, or like you said, "be superior to meat eaters". Some eat fake meat too.

But not all!

I'm vegan for all the reasons most are. Animal rights, compassion, the environment. NOT to be cool. In fact, I went vegan before I even knew of the term.

With regards to the fake meat, this is just because people are used to eating meat. I stay away from this stuff, and I don't even think it's good for the health.

I guess, what I'm trying to say, is for most vegans, this isn't just a fad (in my experience). Most actually have a consistent logical fundamental reasons for their lifestyle choice. And I'm not talking about some wacky, cloud-9 morals. I'm talking about a simply idea that we apply to our daily lives; Compassion.

And about Americans trying to "be different": Well, since America is about leisure of the senses, if there is any different moral standing this will probably entail giving up some pleasures. So this does not only entail to veganism, but also new lifestyles as well regardless of ethics.

Any my question to you, is, if vegans are so crazy, why have "animal rights" in the first place? Why have laws that protect your dog, but not the pigs being murdered in the factories? Oh, right, they are for food so its different. Well, guess what, meat is bad for you. Did you know that? One of the major killers in this country is heart disease. Hmm...I wonder why that happens? What do they tell you when you have heart problems? Eat less meat, eat more vegetables. Ok, so you say, lets eat meat in moderation. Well, we don't even need that. There are plenty of vegan bodybuilders and athletes.

And finally, I just want to say, you shouldn't hate anybody for their beliefs.

Why are you so sore about this anyway? If it doesn't make sense to you, why are you so upset? I think you know that there is something wrong with the food industry, and you want to do something about it. You just can't give up that delicious BBQ hamburger, that will do nothing good for your health.

-Enjoy your ground up carcasses.

-And go eat your dog while you're at it.

-and go look at the source of your meat. I'm sure you would really enjoy your hamburger after that.

Ariel said...

Vegetarian/vegan superiority pisses me off. I think it's because they can get a little sour that they're depriving themselves of something tasty: meat is tasty, period. I don't mind when they politely share their views in the hope of spreading awareness or anything like that, but acting like you're a better person just makes you look arrogant.

I'm a vegetarian. I don't claim to be healthier, holier or more morally sound. I just don't like the idea of killing.

Some people have commented here that consuming vegetables/fruit etc is killing life, and yes, it is - we couldn't exist otherwise.

I just don't like the idea of eating anything that had a brain. I know it was capable of emotions, or even thoughts then.

I know humans are supposed to eat meat. We are natural omnivores. I just think that I'm lucky I have a choice and my body is able to handle not eating meat. A dog or lion can't decide to pardon its prey. But I can, so I'm making that choice.

But I'm not going to shove it down my friends' throats! I'mma let them enjoy their hamburger, 'cos I know it tastes gooooood :)

TheLiberalSoup said...

PlatinumTree said this:

"Plants may have a conscious, plants may feel pain and torture when you chainsaw their guts out. No one really knows."

First of all, it's spelled "conscience", and second, you are clearly a fucking retard if you think plants can feel pain. I mean a serious fucking retard. You should be in an asylum right now.

roberta glass said...

When did it become trendy to insult animal rights advocates? I'm legitimately curious... Did it happen with the advent of PETA? Would you feel comfortable insulting people involved in Amnesty International, because they impose their silly beliefs that people shouldn't be tortured or enslaved? If you decided to buy yourself a child sex slave, would it be too imposing if I told you I didn't approve? If I tried to explain that the child had an emotional and physical wellbeing that should be taken care of, and not brutalized for your own indulgence?

White Procion said...

ahahah wonderful post!! I'll suggest it to my husband! He'll completly agree with you!! ^_^

AllAmerican said...

Nice blog man, I feel ya. I have friends that have recently become vegan and what kills me the most is their attitude has changed as well when it comes to the group. I'm a huge believer of breaking bread with my crew as a sign of mutual respect, but since turning vegan, he forsakes the group whenever food is involved. Its sad that now FOOD is a concept that can divide people. Very sad.

PuddleJumped said...

I entirely disagree. I became a vegetarian for ethical reasons, and try to keep my diet a private matter. The world doesn't need to know, and most people (like yourself) will turn up their noses.
It's undeniable, since there is raw footage and scientific evidence, that because of farming and the fur trade animals are unnecessarily suffering. Cows have been bred for their udders to swell painfully, and pigs -animals which used to be active, independant creatures- develope problems in their legs due to the massive strain of their weight. In the fur trade, countries where practises like this are legal, literally slowly beat an animal to death, and, quite often, these animals are still barely conscious as they are skinned alive. In one memorable piece of footage, a raw, skinned rabbit lifted its head, looked directly into the camera and died.
If I could be guaranteed a product has been harvested in an ethical, humane manner, then I'd be happy to eat away. However, I'm not prepared to take my chances.
My point being, I don't want to impose my beliefs and ideals on you, but your arguments invited a retaliation. Eat what you want, as long as you let me do the same.

geantfamily said...
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geantfamily said...
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geantfamily said...
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geantfamily said...

I am a vegan. When I told my friends and family about my new "lifestyle" change I was brow beaten and called stupid in so many words (one friend actually called me stupid.)and made me feel guilty for trying to do good for myself. My dad had his first heart attack at 40 and the doctor told him to cut as much animal fat from his diet as possible. He failed to listen and had his second heart attack 5 years later. I'm 30 now and just don't want to be on the operating table in 10 years.

Since I've made the change I've seen the opposite of what you mentioned in your article. People have put me down for my food choice. If you love meat you love meat, eat it I don't care, just let me enjoy my food without judgement.

Cate said...

Great post.
We evolved as carnivores and omnivores. Mostly carnivores. I am so sick of sanctimonious friggin vegans stomping their little malnourished feet to the point of crushing the heals of their Birkenstocks, trying to convince the world they are right.
Want a path to good health? Embrace fat and minimize carbs and sugar. You'll end up free of more diseases than a vegan ever will. You'll be lean and strong and feel ten years younger. Primal/LCHF is what we evolved to eat.....

xMissMonsterx said...

This entire post just makes me laugh.

Eating a properly balanced vegan diet isn't unhealthy, or unnatural.
Some vegans look malnourished, but it's just the way they look. Just like not all people who eat meat are morbidly obese or have acne.

I don't understand how promoting a lifestyle which avoids causing harm to another sentient being could be considered a reason to hate someone.

I think most of the comments on this post are completely ignorant and it's quite clear some don't have the slightest idea about veganism.

Why do vegans make mock meats? To mix it up a bit! It doesn't ever taste like beef/chicken/pork/seafood, it's just something we use to create old favourite dishes we grew up eating without an animal having to suffer for it.
I don't understand how that invalidates any of the good that's being done.

To the person who made the stupid comments about needing protein. How may people do you know who are actually protein deficient? It's commonplace in third world countries where they're starving. Have a look at the nutritional breakdown of nearly every fruit and vegetable, and you'll find they all have protein in them.

Since when can't vegans eat bread, by the way?

Amie Nichole said...

I believe there are some people out there who may in fact eat a vegan/vegetarian diets to feel superior, but you get arrogance in every aspect in society. But to make such generalizations, that is ignorant. I am a vegetarian due to animal empathy. I do not care what other people eat because it is, in fact, their conviction. As my choice to eat a meat-free diet is my conviction. Also, to say people choose to change their entire lifestyle and diet just to "be noticed" is one of the more uneducated statements i've ever seen posted. I do not know why you have such downright hate for vegans/vegetarians or any other group that chooses to partake in a certain diet, but I would watch what you post on the makes you look pathetic. Speak your mind, that is fine, but to say "Why it is okay to hate someone for their own beliefs", what a tragedy. I do not know if you are religious, but if you are, don't be offended by the people who state "Why it is okay to hate Christians" or "Why it is okay to hate Jewish people" because their beliefs come directly from the same morals that you yourself have. My comments aren't due to "arrogance" or "wanting to be noticed". I hope not everyone in the US is like you. Lucky for me, most of the ones I have met, are not.

Poquosonrn said...

Does that mean they can't suffer asshole? Just so your fat ass can enjoy meat. Wow. At least vegans are a caring bunch. Maybe we're angry because people live in denial or don't care about the treatment of the animals and we just don't get it. Takes a strong person to give up pleasure to do what they believe is right

Kasia said...

Your post really made me sad, it proves that many humans are still far far away from evolving. I am a vegetarian but not because as you wrote to be noticed but because I care about all leaving creatures. How can you hate people that are against animal cruelty and don't want to support the horrific ways in which animals are treated? For me and I guess for many it is not about the diet it is about the animals.

Sarah S. said...

Hmm I wonder if you're dead now, in 2012. Animal proteins are not good for you, though of course a little bit won't hurt. I feel sad that eating meat has somehow prevented vegetables from tasting good to you. My carnivore husband loves all the vegan food I cook, he just has himself a piece of fish or chicken on the side. Veganism is different these days. Have you ever had vegetarian Indian food? Nobody on the planet would call that flavorless.
Anyway, what really gets me is that nowhere in this rant did you come up with a good reason to hate a vegan. I am a vegan, but I feel superior to you not because I enjoy a delicious vegetable-based diet but because I can actually frame an argument rather than just ranting under inflamatory titles. I don't get mad at people who have more willpower than me or feel morally superior to me because I believe in my own convictions and don't let anybody's preaching make me feel inferior. I actually agreed with a few things you said - we Americans do tend to glorify abstinence in all forms, including sexual, etc., to the point of it being ridiculous. But the vegan diet isn't boring (an omnivore eats like what, 7 additional foods? Chicken, eggs, beef, pork... yeah, that really sounds like a lot of variety) Eating vegan is like any diet and it's easy to do it wrong. You still have to eat a variety of healthy foods. Any vegan I've seen fail either did it for the wrong reasons (because they wanted to feel superior and perfectly pure, which is stupid) or just ate junk. Any junk diet will lead to health problems. The people you really hate are the ones that wind up *former* vegans.

Sarah S. said...

@Cate, Vegans wouldn't even wear Birkenstocks as they use leather - what an outdated stereotype, anyhow. Do you also run around making racially stereotypical comments?

Sadirasafia said...

"It's people. Soylent Green is made out of people. They're making our food out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for food. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!" I'm sorry I could not resist.

Emma said...

ok. I am a vegan. I hate PETA. I'm not superior to your ass. Some vegans are crazy ass weirdos, but I'm not. Don't stereotype. And maybe I'll cook for you sometime so I can prove that vegan food has flavor. Oh, but I bet you wouldn't eat it because you think all vegans are pretentious assholes.

ValRodriguez750 said...

Wow you vegans are sick twisted fucks. Asking if he's dead because eating animals is bad for you? Saying humans are going to be bred as cattle. Go fuck yourselves! You and your attitude are the reason people hate vegans. Don't get me wrong, I've had non judgemental vegan friends, but come on!
I'm not judging you by what you eat, I'm judging you by your shitty attitude and views on people who eat meat. So if everyone becomes vegan, what are you all going to hate on next?
Go enjoy your frankenmeat and fuck off.
By the way, humans are very evolved creatures who can think for themselves. Shut the fuck up with your "humans aren't evolved shit" Kaisa. Humans are hunter/gatherers by nature and I proudly hunt with my father during deer season and fish.

dakshang said...

Bob, I LOVE meat, cheese and milk (and LOTS of beer); my body absorbs these things practically by osmosis when I give it the chance to....

BUT I avoid meat and other animal products out of compassion and empathy for the suffering of other living things; not because I feel that I am superior to other people. It is not easy, as many on this blog have indicated, because living this way requires that I get off my fat, lazy ass and do some research about vitamins, minerals and amino acids, but I have to point out that it also does not give me a superiority complex over other people; I enjoy being around people and always try to see the good in them. These generalizations you are making are doing more harm than good: analogous to the way ideologies throughout history could incite angry mobs to commit brutal acts of barbarism, your post is actually drawing out in people their aggression, hatred, reinforcing their illogical prejudices, and it is more based on your own personal impressions and generalizations than actual facts. I'd like to see you or any other vegan-hater on here try to write an intelligent entry without using language such as "go fuck yourself", "you whining, little bitch vegan..", "animals don't have feelings", "I have no regrets", "I go hunting and fishing", etc, etc. Such statements are fueled by aggression and ignorance, and it doesn't take a person with a "superiority complex" to make that observation. Aggression is easy; it is a primitive emotion. (see Carl Sagan's "The Persistence of Memory" episode of "Cosmos" for a good, simple breakdown of brain-evolution).

dakshang said...

Bob, I LOVE meat, cheese and milk (and LOTS of beer); my body absorbs these things practically by osmosis when I give it the chance to....

BUT I avoid meat and other animal products out of compassion and empathy for the suffering of other living things; not because I feel that I am superior to other people. It is not easy, as many on this blog have indicated, because living this way requires that I get off my fat, lazy ass and do some research about vitamins, minerals and amino acids, but I have to point out that it also does not give me a superiority complex over other people; I enjoy being around people and always try to see the good in them. These generalizations you are making are doing more harm than good: analogous to the way ideologies throughout history could incite angry mobs to commit brutal acts of barbarism, your post is actually drawing out in people their aggression, hatred, reinforcing their illogical prejudices, and it is more based on your own personal impressions and generalizations than actual facts. I'd like to see you or any other vegan-hater on here try to write an intelligent entry without using language such as "go fuck yourself", "you whining, little bitch vegan..", "animals don't have feelings", "I have no regrets", "I go hunting and fishing", etc, etc. Such statements are fueled by aggression and ignorance, and it doesn't take a person with a "superiority complex" to make that observation. Aggression is easy; it is a primitive emotion. (see Carl Sagan's "The Persistence of Memory" episode of "Cosmos" for a good, simple breakdown of brain-evolution).

E. T. K. said...

This blog entry was extremely entertaining and relieving. It was entertaining because many of the overtly silly and austere measures described in the article I have seen in my own, very short, life.

Why relieving? Because it grounds me in reality, knowing that when these "high horse" types start their preaching, it really is true that they have no scientific evidence to back it up.

I really dislike vegetables. I suppose I must have a very sensitive taste center in my brain. From a young age, I have constantly gagged when accidentally ingesting a vegetable. After 24 years of 'training', I can scoff down a few, select, sweet and bland vegetables if needed.

I love meat, however. And I also love processed carbohydrates. Oh well, I say. My weight is completely within the normal range, my blood pressure decent, etc. (I have had my blood-work done recently and it came back perfectly normal), so I am going to continue to enjoy my food when I eat it.

If a person wants to practice self-denial, should it not be a PRIVATE and personal venture (like the Saints of the Early Church or Tibetan Monks...). To me, gaining attention from others invalidates it completely.

And for slaughtering animals for food being "evil", that indicates to me that the person claiming such things has a serious superiority complex. So much so that they find the human species to NOT EVEN be part of the animal kingdom. After all...I never met a person scolding any wild animal for violently killing its prey and enjoying some delicious sustenance.

Maybe they just can't admit that life on Earth is not some fairy tale "co-existence" between species. Life can be good, bad, unpleasant...all in the same act (say, having to kill for food). But who said life was NOT like this??

Your Vegan Best Friend said...

@E.T.K. I think the reason that nobody scolds a wild animal for killing it's prey is because that wild animal eats meat out of necessity. Humans do not need meat to live. There is tons of scientific evidence to support this. So it is a matter of choice versus necessity.

TruthBeTold said...

"bee salvery " they call it. Pure hilarity I laughed in my office for minutes, I sure hope nobody heard. Funny we have so many HUMAN SLAVES and starving kids and these fucktards want to save the bees? That's their concern?? If that's not some egotistical self-righteous bullshit I don't know what is! They don't have compassion ,they just want to be different!
this sentence " Anything that causes pleasure for it's own sake seems to make Americans nervous. " is really interesting, we are maybe programmed to believe pleasure and happiness is a bad thing and often self-sabotage under the disguise of fear and insecurity....hmmm

Your Vegan Best Friend said...

@TruthBeTold Why on earth would caring for bees mean that we can't also care for human slavery and starvation? That makes absolutely no sense. If I care about gay rights then I cannot also care about abused children? Grow up, that makes no sense.

Katish said...

Wow, you sound like a really bitter, selfish, cynical old man. I feel sorry for you. Try going vegan, or better yet - raw. You will feel so much better. Good luck to you and all your endeavors <3

Unknown said...

Where can I find that t-shirt that list what vegans don't eat? I'm looking for one for my son.

Unknown said...

Where can I find that t-shirt that list what vegans don't eat? I'm looking for one for my son.

Unknown said...

Where can I find that t-shirt that list what vegans don't eat? I'm looking for one for my son.

Jess said...

I hope that there are more important things in your life than cultivating hate for other groups of people based on their personal decisions that absolutely in no way affect any part of your life. The fact that you spent the time to write this tells me that, no, you must not have more important things going on. I have three ideas of things you should do with your time: 1) research what a paragraph is because you apparently are missing the point and 2) "two" is a number. "too" is another way of saying "also." Learn it, live it, love it. 3) Now that you can write like an adult who passed high school, you can start working in any number of ways to make the world a better place. Cheers.

The Zombie Hunter said...

Hey G.Bob, I love ya man. Facebook's an irritating way how many people spread those newfangled food fads and recycling old ones.

Like chain letters and "heard it from a friend" stuff.

The problem is that there's always a new generation of gullible's swallowing it up.

A grilled steak and cold drink to you sir!

Robert Louis Clinton, Jr. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dustin Davis said...

I am vegetarian. I don't care about animals lives. They are lower on the food chain. It is the natural way. I chose to be vegetarian to avoid all the unhealthy processed food in the market today. With epidemics popping up since the meat industry changed in the 1950's (retardation, cancer) I saw a correlation and wanted to do better for myself.

Not all of us are self-righteous hippies.

Diana Trimble said...

The main thing I find annoying about vegans, even those who don't preach, is their overall obsession with and paranoia about "what's in" everything which can really be a drag on a fun day out. Just finding a place to get a snack when I'm out with my vegan friend soon turns into an annoying mission. I don't eat junk food so while she turns down every restaurant we pass, I just deal with my growing hunger, but she has no problem scarfing on crisps and other processed crap - as long as it's vegan! I'll eat peanuts or something if I'm desperate, but we can't share those because she's now convinced she has a nut allergy too. Meanwhile, she is constantly in a run-down state of poor health, insomnia, lack of energy, poor concentration, tiredness and so on, but refuses to see any connection to her diet. I have tried to tell her about how unhealthy it is to consume lots of soy products, excess use of which produces the exact symptoms she is suffering but again, it's like talking to a wall. So I guess this is what I find most annoying about vegans - they are convinced they are eating the best and most healthy diet even when their own state of health is far from impressive. She is also eating some kind of "flapjack" (basically a fake ass candy bar) every single day, cookies and chocolate but long as no bees were enslaved! (I was actually told that honey was a "bee slavery product" when I tried to get some for the flavourless tea I was served in a vegan restaurant many years ago. Vegans love to wear "vegetarian" shoes, usually made from petroleum products and other things far more harmful to the environment, in both manufacture and decay, than some cowskins. Again, the destruction of the planet doesn't matter - as long as it's vegan! These are some of the things that irritate me and probably a lot of others too.

Hari said...

50 plus years old and not a shred of ethics...what a waste of life

Vegetarians only feel superior because people like you, those who are informed of cruelty yet still eat meat, are morally despicable And completely irrational.

Not even going to bother with you. Fucking pathetic.

Hari said...

50 plus years old and not a shred of ethics...what a waste of life

Vegetarians only feel superior because people like you, those who are informed of cruelty yet still eat meat, are morally despicable And completely irrational.

Not even going to bother with you. Fucking pathetic.

kali beagle said...

I am vegan and believe me, i absolutely hate telling people that i don't eat animal products. They will either start telling me why I'm unhealthy and stupid, or they will feel the need to defend themselves and turn it into a personal psychological pep-talk.

Veganism has humbled me, not made me feel superior to others. I gave up my favorite foods, some friends (they wanted nothing to do with me), and i subjected myself to hateful posts and comments like these. I now have to watch my nutrient intake more carefully than before, i had to research nutrition extensively, i had to give up my favorite shampoo and purses. But hear me when i say this...

I did not go vegan so i could get YOUR attention!

Stop believing yourself to be holier than thou.

Tobias said...

theres a reason why many meat-eaters react poorly to vegetarians and vegans they meet, somewhere deep within they know what they are doing is wrong, so they feel they have to attack or defend themselves. Think about it for a minute before going into defence modus.

Tobias said...

theres a reason why many meat-eaters react poorly to vegetarians and vegans they meet, somewhere deep within they know what they are doing is wrong, so they feel they have to attack or defend themselves. Think about it for a minute before going into defence modus.

Safina R G said...

omigod this article is so ridiculous its funny. "vegetarians aren't vegetarians because of animal empathy, most do it to feel superior to us lowly meat eaters"?! People don't want to date people with allergies?!"Go fuck yourself [vegans]"?! And yet, "I have no quarrel if you wish to avoid meat", despite the fact that the entire article is one long rant at anyone who dares to have different views on food ethics and health to you. It's a long time since I've seen something this narrow-minded, hypocritical, generalised and exaggerated. Thanks for making me laugh :)

Safina R G said...
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Katabobabda said...

I am a new vegan, only to do as little harm as I can in this world, as I do with people.
I'm so saddened to see that my desire to do the best I personally can could make me hated.
Of course I would never preach. I am trying to be compassionate and making someone in my circle enjoy their meal any less is not on my agenda list.
My vegan friends told me to expect a world of hate but I'm shocked and I really don't understand it.
I have Muslim friends, Jewish friends and others who have diet constraints because they believe in something I don't. I can't imagine hating them for it

ryirkah said...

Something to clear up here....vegetarianism and veganism are two different things. Vegetarianism is the belief of avoiding eating dead animal flesh. Veganism is all about avoiding any and all animal products including dairy, eggs, honey, etc.

So....Why does Veganism breed dickish behavior, you ask? The reason why is because vegans are people who were once vegetarians and decided that it didn't go far enough. It wasn't "socially conscious" or attention-whorey enough. This inevitably leads to unfairly judging others and adopting a position of superiority (even to vegetarians).

Fuck vegans (most of them, anyway. some are okay).

Milind R said...

To think that vegetarian food is boring and tasteless is tasteless is absolutely ludicrous. When it is the plain bland slabs of meat that have zero taste.

Listen up. Humans don't NEED meat. I'm from India and no Brahmin is supposed to eat meat. You can't look at any of them and guess what they eat.

And it's not Americans who feel that depriving oneself is the right thing.It's standard eastern belief that bloodthirsty instincts are undesirable. Those are GUIDELINES to think about, not rigid rules of life.

However I now see the value. Lots of Americans feel highly entitled to everything. You DESERVE what you think you need right? Humility is not something you understand, I wager.

This is probably why vegetarians may look down upon you: you're being a greedy selfish jerk! Your instincts to do what YOU want is more important that anything else right? It's all about YOU!

I was right. There is a correlation between entitled consumerism and meat eating.

ryirkah said...

^^^^ LOL @ you thinking meat-eating is uniquely American.

Anodyne said...

@VeganGod You use cannibalism as a dire warning, but then claim that it will be commonplace. This is logically inconsistent. If it is a social norm, then it would not make us uncomfortable.

Anodyne said...

@Milind Ok you have "eastern beliefs that bloodthirsty instincts are undesirable". More preaching. Where is the research that links meat eating with undesirable personality traits? Right, this is just quasi-religious doctrine that vegans spout to feel superior.

Anodyne said...

vegan (n.) - A human being who converts bread, crackers, and chips into moralizing, grandiosity, and disdain

David said...

I am a vegan because I don't want to commit violence against other sentient beings. I care about each animal as an individual. I don't want an animal to suffer on my account. I don't think I am superior to any other being (including humans) on this earth. I believe all beings are equal. We all have a reason to be here, and I respect all life. Why does this make me a douche-bag?

ryirkah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ryirkah said...

ryirkah said...
@ David: I don't know. What I will say is that you're a douchebag if you judge anybody who does eat meat as "immoral" and "cruel". Omnivorism is built into our genetic composition. It's a scientific fact. If you wanna eat vegan, more power to ya but don't tell me I'm an asshole because I eat the way humans are meant to eat.

eroticpleasures said...

Hey dude this is the latest facebook page which is really gaining momentum. Over two years it grew to 90,000 likes and in the last two weeks has received 20,000 likes. You go through and read the posts and they are actually making quite incredulous statements and untruths. The poor saps following it are so gullible. You try and explain to the hoardes on these pages that we are OMNIVORES and you get threatened by the admins with getting banned (oh noooo.... don't ban me) unless you get educated and learn that humans are herbivores etc.... vegans stand for B.S.

Mysterious Babylonian said...

You're dead right about the American infatuation with the mistrust/opposition to pleasure, and its actuality as a self-righteous cultic mentality. This comes directly from the Puritan and Transcendental movements, which transformed into Pietism and Progressive Christianity (i.e., Progressivism, i.e. liberalism, the religion of 99% of Vegans).

I'll leave you with a bit from H.L. Mencken's "Damn! A Book of Calumny", this is about teetotalers but it applies to Vegans just as well:

"Envy, as I have said, is at the heart of the messianic delusion, the mania to convert the happy sinner into a "good" man, and so make him miserable. And at the heart of that envy is fear—the fear to sin, to take a chance, to monkey with the buzzsaw. This ineradicable fear is the outstanding mark of the fifth-rate man, at all times and everywhere. It dominates his politics, his theology, his whole thinking. He is a moral fellow because he is afraid to venture over the fence—and he hates the man who is not.

The solemn proofs, so laboriously deduced from life insurance statistics, that the man who uses alcohol, even moderately, dies slightly sooner than the teetotaler—these proofs merely show that this man is one who leads an active and vigorous life, and so faces hazards and uses himself up—in brief, one who lives at high tempo and with full joy, what Nietzsche used to call the ja-sager, or yes-sayer. He may, in fact, die slightly sooner than the teetotaler, but he lives infinitely longer. Moreover, his life, humanly speaking, is much more worth while, to himself and to the race. He does the hard and dangerous work of the world, he takes the chances, he makes the experiments. He is the soldier, the artist, the innovator, the lover. All the great works of man have been done by men who thus lived joyously, strenuously, and perhaps a bit dangerously. They have never been concerned about stretching life for two or three more years; they have been concerned about making life engrossing and stimulating and a high adventure while it lasts. Teetotalism is as impossible to such men as any other manifestation of cowardice, and, if it were possible, it would destroy their utility and significance just as certainly.

A man who shrinks from a cocktail before dinner on the ground that it may flabbergast his hormones, and so make him die at 69 years, ten months and five days instead of at 69 years, eleven months and seven days—such a man is as absurd a poltroon as the fellow who shrinks from kissing a woman on the ground that she may floor him with a chair leg. Each flees from a purely theoretical risk. Each is a useless encumberer of the earth, and the sooner dead the better. Each is a discredit to the human race, already discreditable enough, God knows.

Teetotalism does not make for human happiness; it makes for the dull, idiotic happiness of the barnyard. The men who do things in the world, the men worthy of admiration and imitation, are men constitutionally incapable of any such pecksniffian stupidity. Their ideal is not a safe life, but a full life; they do not try to follow the canary bird in a cage, but the eagle in the air. And in particular they do not flee from shadows and bugaboos. The alcohol myth is such a bugaboo. The sort of man it scares is the sort of man whose chief mark is that he is always scared."

Unknown said...

Zomg guys check it out. I'm raw vegan and I love it. I don't criticize anyone about what they eat because I don't care. And I'm open about my lifestyle because I refuse to be shamed about my choices the same way as you. Sure the big change was a little hard for the first couple months, but I don't feel like I'm restricting myself at all now. I get all the vitamins I need, including B12, protein (amino acids, which are easier on the body) and many other vitamins and minerals (without supplements) that most people on the Standard American Diet lack. That's not pretentiousness, that's just a fact and if I offended you just by saying my diet is nutritious, and the SAD isn't (a well known fact) then you should probably look at how you are pushing your lifestyle because I have said nothing wrong. People like the writer of this article and many of the commenters here are trying to make the discussion about nutrition and alternatives to the SAD a negative topic when it should always be positive no matter what. Those negative people here using their classroom bully tactics making self righteous jokes and whatnot, they aren't contributing anything positive to the discussion and have some serious growing up to do.

Lissa Willason said...

I'm failing to realize the idea of "symbiosis" when the endgame of all factory farmed, domesticated "food animals" is death. When animals stop producing what we use them for, or when it's time to put them on a plate, we kill them. Would you call it symbiosis if a cannibal kept you fat and happy for years only to eat you in the end? I am all for people making their own food choices, but don't pretend like you're some kind of saint because you take care of them before you kill them.

Lissa Willason said...

I'm failing to realize the idea of "symbiosis" when the endgame of all factory farmed, domesticated "food animals" is death. When animals stop producing what we use them for, or when it's time to put them on a plate, we kill them. Would you call it symbiosis if a cannibal kept you fat and happy for years only to eat you in the end? I am all for people making their own food choices, but don't pretend like you're some kind of saint because you take care of them before you kill them.

Bridgette Mueller said...

It actually takes 16 lbs of grain to produce 1 lb of beef.. I guess your research skill aren't up to par

Bridgette Mueller said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bridgette Mueller said...

Your family friend will get over it I promise but do you know who will not the living creature that would have had to die so that it would make you a little less uncomfortable. Your kids friend is capable of giving up pleasure to save a live how can you be offended by that? You should be proud that your kid is so accepting.

Michael Evans said...

There are dozens of pretentious, arrogant comments from vegans that just further reinforces my personal beliefs about them... much like the author of this piece.

Being a vegan isn't simply about a life choice but rather a smug sense of moral superiority over others who do not live the same way. They are quite defensive and will go so far as to convince themselves of a great many lies.

You do not consider eating meat unethical for only yourself no matter how many BS lies you spew, Vegan. And while you sit in disgust at evil neanderthal omnivores, please know that we do not need to resort to filling our heads with propaganda and lies to justify what we eat as you do.

Run along now, brainwashed vegan. You are better than nobody.

the_student2011 said...

If Vegans/Vegetarians are constantly attacking people for eating meat, why are all the comments I see here posted by Meat eating individuals attacking vegans/vegetarians?

Considering I get harassed daily from friends because I do not eat meat, I cannot say that I feel better than anyone.

Joe Muggs said...

I don't think that people are annoyed at vegans or veganism itself, but are annoyed at vocal vegans and vegans who promote it with bias. These are the vegans I (and possibly others) are talking about. I know vegans and there is nothing differentiating them from anybody else. I just don't like it when vegans say meat is bad and try to base it on science. Watching biased documentaries and reading the China study is not science. There are studies that show that veganism can be healthy, but vocal vegans ignore contrary studies. Studies that favor veganism are usually (not always) plagued by the healthy user bias. Vegans tend to be health concious, it is unfair compare average vegans to average non-vegans. All of the studies that account for the healthy user bias has shown that a properly planned vegan diet is no more healthy than a properly planned conventional diet.

Regarding factory farms, I blamed their reputation on the biased documentaries and vegan propaganda. If you ever go to a farm, big or small, it's quite clean and the animals are not crammed together. They do cram themselves together when they feed, but that's what they do while feed. The documentaries just concentrate on the few and passes it off as the norm.

All of this is of course a first world issue. It is not possible to live a vegan life without our level of knowledge and technology. Without supplements and knowing what foods has what, veganism is not possible. We live in a country where we have the luxury of choosing to NOT eat certain foods. Try telling anybody in a less well off country that it's wrong for them to consume animal flesh. In this respect, the vegan is quite the bigot.

Lucky Joestar said...

I was a vegan for nineteen years until I gave it up six years ago. I bought into all the lies the vegan cult leaders told me about how it was “healthy,” lies being repeated in many of the above comments by true believers. It took coming close to obesity due to being vegan to see through the lies. I’m no longer overweight now that I’m largely carnivorous, back eating meat, eggs and cheese.

I also believed the vegan lies about land use until it dawned on me that livestock can graze on land unsuitable for farming. When algae production becomes a reality later on, algae sludge will be able to feed livestock. (Let’s see you vegans try planting corn, wheat and soybeans out in the Pacific Ocean!)

Veganism, I can tell you, was nothing more than a lame excuse to feel superior to others, and now I realize what a pompous ass I used to be … just like the pompous asses the meat-shunning blowhards above still are.

Nataya Foss said...

"Gorilla" Bob, are you quite aware of WHY we have factory farms? Once upon a time, there were no factory farms. Do you know why? Do you really? It is because the average person could not afford meat. They lived off of PLANT FOODS. The only reason the average person can afford meat nowadays is because of subsidies that the government puts on meat, dairy, eggs, and processed foods. Do you know why the government does this? It is because meat, dairy, eggs, and processed food makes you sick and then you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars pumping money into the "medical" field trying to cure your disease when the answer is simple: remove the cause, and the body will heal. I point this out not only to show you that by choosing an omnivorous diet are you not buying into and supporting the bullshit lies and propaganda and slowly poisoning yourself (which you have every right to do, but don't you DARE try to defend that level of bullshit), but you stated in a previous comment that you try to buy from small, local farms. Sir, the reason we HAVE factory farms is because NOT EVERYONE IS ABLE TO EAT MEAT (read: companies cannot keep up with demand) IF WE ARE ALL TRYING TO BUY "SMALL,LOCAL, ORGANIC". No matter what you do, you are fucked. Knowing that, my dear Gorilla Bob, I would reconsider your logic as far as your diet goes. And by the way, you have clearly never been in a vegan or vegetarian restaurant, and there are very valid arguments underlying raw food. Enzymes are a bigger deal than you think. You should be shitting at least once a day, not once a week, which I'm assuming you more than likely do, being as you probably have very little fiber (and enzymes) in your diet. Good day.

Nataya Foss said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Overdo it, I encourage it! said...

I hate vegans myself, and I think eating gluten can't be as good as eating meat. What are they eating gluten for? I'm wondering, and you can't tell me a vegeburger tastes like meat, come on! Overwhelming research shows the body at least needs fish.

Neal Bedwell said...

"Walk into a steakhouse, and the overwhelming mood is of joy, comradery, and happiness. Walk into a vegetarian place, and it's a funeral parlor"

Whoops... I think that just might be the other way around given that all the dead bodies are in the steakhouse.

Seriously though.. for any would-be vegans reading that article, just bear in mind that the meat industry has started to fight back against ethical eating simply because people are becoming so much more switched on now to the incredible cruelty of factory farming and meat production in general.

One of the ways they're fighting back is by employing folks to write articles just like that one. Folks who are actually employed be the meat industry to try to sway people against ethical eating. Hell ethical living of any kind if it hurts profits.
And some of these people get well paid to sit on the internet whipping up anti-ethical/pro-meat sentiment, telling us all that selfish is the new ethical, and ethical is...well..just plain selfish.

There are folks out there who aren't just guzzling other individuals because their selfish, some of them are also doing it because they're financially greedy as well.

I'm not saying that's necessarily the case with this author. It might be or it might not be. But it is happening, and don't let anyone kid you it isn't.

I think the early suffragettes were accused of much the same 'being preachy' thing, not to mention anti-slavery campaigners. I'll bet there were backlash conversations just like this during their time...

"walk into any patriarchal home and the overwhelming mood amongst the men there is of joy, camaraderie, and happiness (while the women sacrifice their lives dealing with the drudgery). Walk into a post-feminism home and it's like a funeral parlor with men having to share the workload and take responsibility to free up parts of women's lives.
And what's worse, the post-feminist home has this awful 'preachy' woman who insists that the men take a fair share of the responsibility. How selfish can she get, spoiling their fun like that? Outrageous!"

Sound familiar?
Trying to make out that vegans are 'being preachy' just because we suggest everyone try to respect each other's lives (including non humans) is a dangerous tack that could be quite effective if people really are stupid enough to fall for it, but I don't believe people are stupid, fortunately.

Trying to reduce cruelty isn't 'preachy' it' trying to reduce cruelty.

Be happy, be healthy and above all try to be kind to everyone around you. Being nice to others and being selfish to others can both spread with use, in opposite directions. Which one do you want to be a part of?

Raeanne Roy said...

Thank you for this blog post! So tired of being told I should eat coconut/carrot/tofu/etc bacon instead of actual bacon, which has a completely different organic makeup including fat and protein. I am someone who has had to switch to organic meat as something about non-organic makes me ill. Could be chemicals or colorants. Could be residual antibiotics. Could be that they've commonly been thawed and refrozen. Who knows? I just put what works for my body as fuel into it and expect others to do the same. A balanced diet with meat, veggies, and low GF carbs helps my autoimmune condition. Good fats are also key. I'm not being cruel to animals by eating an omnivorous diet. Humans have eaten meat since fire was discovered, at a minimum. I'm doing what makes my body healthy. There's a thing called "skinny fat" that's common in those who don't eat meat. Also, a nutritionist warned me about tofu being prone to bad bacteria and improper fermentation, which can make people really sick. I was recently invited to an event that was supposed to be about honouring Alan Rickman. The organizers decided that the 9-hr event had to be meat free. It wasn't, "if you want meat you'll have to bring your own". If that's not enforcing your will upon another... Change it to, "for 9 hours you can't wear clothes," and it would be considered ridiculous. I declined. There are lots of health reasons to have a different diet and I don't think there are any legitimate reasons to force your diet on another person. You don't know their body like they do.

Neal Bedwell said...

"I don't think there any legitimate reasons to force your diet on another person"

Aren't you 'forcing your diet' on to everyone you eat? Certainly your diet 'forces' their unwilling death. That's not in the least bit 'preachy'. It's just a very simple, very unequivocal fact. Just like 2+2=4.

btw. .. What do you mean by "had to switch to organic meat as something about non-organic makes me I'll".... "non - organic" what made you ill? Non - organic meat? What is that. All meat is organic. All vegetables are organic. All 'natural' food is organic. There's no such thing is non - organic food for humans. If you've been reading non - organic food THAT'S why you've been ill. Nothing to do with whether it's meat or not.

You want to defend 'freedom of lifeSTYLE but have no regard for freedom to live in the first place (your victim). You're contradicting yourself.

Your post need clarification of it is to make any sense.

Raeanne Roy said...

No Neal, my post is quite intuitive for most humans. For a definition of "organic" as applied to today's food market, see:

I have no urge or need to defend my diet to you. I did nothing to you, yet you attack me. I bet your next comment will be something like I attack animals, which is untrue and slanderous.

That reminds me, I'm out of bacon. By the way, I buy locally raised bacon. It helps farmers and reduces air pollution from shipping. It also tastes better. Many fruits and vegetables come from foreign countries.

I'm also Pagan. Would you like to attack me for that too?

Neal Bedwell said...

Is not unitive to anyone how takes it at face value.

Again... 'There are no legitimate reasons to force your diet on another person'. So.. How is eating someone not 'forcing your diet' on them'? You've got to admit the state by is a contradiction. If you don't think it is then at least have the decency to explain why now that you've made it otherwise what's the point in making the claim.

My question is polite, incredibly straightforward, and highly relevant to the statement you made.

And now you've said you 'don't attack animals'. This is physically impossible. To eat an animal you (or someone paid by you) must first kill it. Which means attacking it. It doesn't just die for no reason does it? Ergo... You attack animals.

It's a bit like saying you drive a car but you don't start it. The late is impossible without the former.

Ate you really thinking this through before saying these things?

This has nothing to do with hating you. I don't even know you. But if you're making a factually inaccurate (impossiblle!) statement I'll tell you, and that's what you're doing.

Raeanne Roy said...

You requested facts. Here they are:

1. Plants are living organisms. Many have built-in defense mechanisms to prevent animals (of which you are one) from eating them. Thus you are taking the life of an organism, which clearly does not want to die, to keep living.


Oh, but wait. I guess you aren't a spider.

Fact 2: Many doctors and health experts advise against a vegan diet.

3. Domestic pigs on average live 6-10 years and in the wild 8 years. As I already mentioned, I eat organic meat (see above if you're still confused about what that means).

Raeanne Roy said...

Furthermore, I have concluding conversing with you, Neal. It is clear to me that there is no need to discuss anything else as common ground will never be found.

In defense of other vegans, I do know some who are quite reasonable human beings who don't mind if their friends eat chicken wings beside them or even bring meat into their home as long as their friend doesn't try to feed it to them.

Neal Bedwell said...

Very well. You have concluded. Now I will also conclude.

The case betweem plants and animals is (as I suspect you already know if you'd only be honest with yourself) entirely different.
It's a continuing problem that the most vociferous anti - vegans usually have the least knowledge of veganism and the ethical rains for it. I can only urge (probably pointlessly) that you educate yourself on the subject if you're going to try to take an ethical position on your behaviour.
I can't explain a complex subject to you in a few posts but life is experienced in a continuum. Plants exist at the lowest end of this. They do not have a central nervous system. They live but the do not have emotions, families, relationships etc. They do not have consciousness.

Look up 'subject -of-a-life' and learn.

It's an old chestnut bringing the death of plants into the conversation and it really only applies if you're ignorant of moral philosophy. The is in reality no comparison to be made.
I suggest you Google 'Animal Rights' FAQ'. It will answer all the misconceptions you've made here. Question 42 applies in particular.

Domestic pigs live.... Well I don't see the relevance really. It demonstrates a lack of understanding about what this is really all about.

Vegan diet is healthier for YOU (partially relevant but still misses the main point by a mile). (Arguably) increasing one persons health by a percentage at the cost of (definitely)removing someone else's life altogether is not a very solid argument on which to base overall health of individuals, and certainly had nothing to do with vegsnism, or even decent humanity.

The 'common ground' between us is (quite literally) the 'pig in the middle' and the 60 billion others every year who are human property because ..... Well because. ... You like it that way.

I used to eat animals so I have both perspectives and can speak from experiencing both moral viewpoints. I have already been either side of the 'middle ground' and can argue with experience and knowledge of your position.
You cannot do this which is why you and so many like yousilly miss the point. Your comments really do reflect this ad is often the case.


That's not intended as an insult. Just a fact.

If, like the person who wrote this article